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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: cataclysm80]
#77222
07/13/08 12:45 PM
07/13/08 12:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
The TA challenger front valance procedure should be the same as any other challenger. The front spoilers were placed in the trunk with instructions for dealer installation, thus no need for an assembly line change. The dealerships didn't always follow the instructions well during spoiler installation resulting in varied spoiler location. For a spoiler bolt to have paint under it, that black on the valance must have been applied after the dealership installed the spoilers.
Which brings the question….why is this particular T/A valance panel (and series of photos) being used to substantiate a factory paint procedure if it was altered AFTER it left the factory. I thought we were discussing how things were done at the factory concerning Chrysler engineered procedures!?!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: 70RT Charger]
#77223
07/14/08 01:51 AM
07/14/08 01:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
 
Four weeks to countdown 70 RT Charger. Hope you can make it!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: A12]
#77224
07/14/08 09:33 AM
07/14/08 09:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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Quote:
I wonder if these four humans were the only four that sprayed the factory undercoating for 12+ years, on two or three shifts and signed their names exactly the same way on their paychecks?
and don't forget the 5 or 6 cars that came down the line when the left/front side spray guy was in the washroom... the right side guy would have to pick up his slack but, he'd be spraying from a differnt angle becuase he was left handed... 
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77225
07/14/08 12:45 PM
07/14/08 12:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
The TA challenger front valance procedure should be the same as any other challenger. The front spoilers were placed in the trunk with instructions for dealer installation, thus no need for an assembly line change. The dealerships didn't always follow the instructions well during spoiler installation resulting in varied spoiler location. For a spoiler bolt to have paint under it, that black on the valance must have been applied after the dealership installed the spoilers.
Which brings the question….why is this particular T/A valance panel (and series of photos) being used to substantiate a factory paint procedure if it was altered AFTER it left the factory. I thought we were discussing how things were done at the factory concerning Chrysler engineered procedures!?!
That black stuff may not be paint, it might just be dirt/road grime. Troy knows, maybe he'll enlighten us? All of these cars are 38 years old now, none of them are factory fresh. All we can do is to use the best examples we can find.
My own 70 challenger also has paint between the fender & valance, but that could easily have been from a repair on my car, so I wouldn't use it as a refference. If someone out there does have pics showing a lack of paint where the fender/front valance meet, I'd like to see them. So far I've only seen pics showing this for the rear valance.
My own feeling is that the valances were both on the car when it was painted, just looking for the proof, and still wondering why it was removed for the undercoating procedure.
When the rear valance was removed & replaced, the factory used new bolts for the installation so they wouldn't have to worry about picking up the right color old bolts to match the car.
So, are the front valance bolts painted or not? This could be a good clue maybe.
Tav
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: cataclysm80]
#77226
07/14/08 01:44 PM
07/14/08 01:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
That black stuff may not be paint, it might just be dirt/road grime.
You gotta love it when that "road grime" leaves a very distinct, even, black, over spray pattern... 
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77227
07/14/08 02:40 PM
07/14/08 02:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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"So, are the front valance bolts painted or not? This could be a good clue maybe."
On my T/A (04/06/70, Hamtramck with chin spoilers) It appears that both the bolts and the speed nut had no paint on them.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: RT_6_PakShaker]
#77232
07/15/08 11:08 AM
07/15/08 11:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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Very nice pictures, thank you. I have found that Chrysler did not like to do things twice. The thought of a line worker installing both front and rear valances.....painting the car.....then removing the valances to install drive train seems like extra work. Where the valances painted??? Where the valances painted at the same time as the body?? I don't know, I was not there.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Troy]
#77233
07/15/08 11:12 AM
07/15/08 11:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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That is a real nice picture of the undercoating pattern in the wheel well. Explains why I had no undercoating on my bumper brackets.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Troy]
#77234
07/15/08 12:28 PM
07/15/08 12:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
I have found that Chrysler did not like to do things twice. Where the valances painted???
Which is exactly why they painted them on the car! We are back to the assumption of two separate paint lines just like in the hood insert thread. Same drill gentleman! Those two samples hardly constitute the norm for the MANY I have seen that were painted on the car. I will get the pictures down loaded (as soon as I get the chance) of the cars that have primer showing between the panel edges.
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: Troy]
#77235
07/15/08 12:36 PM
07/15/08 12:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
That is a real nice picture of the undercoating pattern in the wheel well. Explains why I had no undercoating on my bumper brackets.
Actually Troy, that pattern has nothing to do with the under coating pattern found on your car. It can only be used to substantiate the exact pattern for this car. There seems to be a lot of flip flopping with regards to attitudes on the assembly process for these cars. We all admit that each car was as different as their owners. When we find one or two samples that accommodates whatever belief we are trying to developed, that particular theory (every car being a little different) is completely pushed aside. For the record, my brackets DID have undercoating that splattered on the top side of the surface!
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77236
07/15/08 12:38 PM
07/15/08 12:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
The valance was painted on the car and removed to assist in ease of assembly for certain parts. The blackout was applied when it was removed (but painted) and re-installed after the other steps were completed. The core support blackout was applied sometime after the front valance was removed. Both black out steps were probably performed very close together.
Hey Dave, maybe I misunderstood that somehow, but if the blackouts were applied with the valance removed then there wouldn't be any blackout overspray on the valance. All the valances shown so far have exhibited blackout overspray. (but Not undercoating)
Tav
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: ECS]
#77237
07/15/08 12:42 PM
07/15/08 12:42 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
cataclysm80
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,165
Florida
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Quote:
Those two samples hardly constitute the norm for the MANY I have seen that were painted on the car. I will get the pictures down loaded (as soon as I get the chance) of the cars that have primer showing between the panel edges.
That would be Great Dave. Thank You. I'm looking forward to seeing them. Please make sure they're front valance pictures, Not rear valance.
(any suggestions/ideas why the ones we've seen here so far show paint between the panels?)
Tav
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: cataclysm80]
#77238
07/15/08 02:03 PM
07/15/08 02:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
ECS
David Walden
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David Walden
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,711
USA
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Quote:
Hey Dave, maybe I misunderstood that somehow, but if the blackouts were applied with the valance removed then there wouldn't be any blackout overspray on the valance. All the valances shown so far have exhibited blackout overspray. (but Not undercoating)
Tav
Sorry guys but I have mixed up the front with the back. (Thanks Tav for mention of the rear. My picture portfolio was of rear valances.) The front was painted separate from the car but was left off to do the black out before it was installed. In the picture of my car (posted below) you will notice the arrow pointing to the blackout on the front corner of the radiator core support. Do you see any white showing through the black? It would be IMPOSSIBLE for the blackout to have been applied in THAT pattern if the valance was in place. The bracket is right up against the core support and would have kept the blackout paint from covering that area. If you agree with that fact, then you have to agree that the valance was off the car in order to do the blackout procedure. That is when the core support black out, valance blackout, undercoat, bumper & brackets, etc....were performed. The front valance was left off to assist with those steps. The core support could not be covered with black out if the valance was sitting directly in front of it. Also look at the pattern of the blackout on the valance. It would be impossible to have that type of spray pattern if the part was bolted in place on the car. (Again, sorry for the mental lapse about the front valance being painted off the car. It was off for the black out. We did paint the rear ON the car and the front OFF the car.)
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Re: Taking it to the next level? Wow!
[Re: 70challrtse]
#77241
07/15/08 06:43 PM
07/15/08 06:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,232
Indianpolis, IN
69_500
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,232
Indianpolis, IN
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Your not taking it to the Nationals now? There has to be a story behind this. Inquiring minds want to know. I have been quietly following this thread for months now. Was going to make the trip to the nats just to see this car and 1 other car.
On the hunt for my dad's old cars. They include 5 Daytona's, 2 superbirds, and 2 500's. Very interested in finding the Red on Red Daytona, and Q5 Charger 500, and have found both cars.
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