Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
#757081
07/24/10 11:25 PM
07/24/10 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 637
West Central Wi.
1969 HEMI R-T
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OP
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Posts: 637
West Central Wi.
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can anyone give advise on water/meth injection on blown sb Paxton novi 2000, 6-8 lbs of boost street car! would this be beneficial or an inner cooler Air to Air, or both?
Kevin
HEMI,S ARE FOREVER!!!
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: 1969 HEMI R-T]
#757082
07/25/10 01:01 PM
07/25/10 01:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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Senior Management
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This has been covered a few times recently.
Street car = air/air cooler is best.
water/air can be done but is much more involved.
Meth injection is great for a power adder but don't rely on it alone to keep your engine alive.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: feets]
#757083
07/25/10 01:52 PM
07/25/10 01:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 637
West Central Wi.
1969 HEMI R-T
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West Central Wi.
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Thanks, I am going to do both! I want to be on the safe side.
HEMI,S ARE FOREVER!!!
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#757087
07/28/10 04:15 PM
07/28/10 04:15 PM
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Irving, TX
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It's not good to rely on meth injection to keep your street engine alive.
Meth injection has a specific volume you can carry. When it's gone, your engine might be gone too.
It also has multiple points of failure. Any part of the system can fail, leading to engine failure.
You don't run out of air/air intercooler.
If any part of the air/air intercooler fails you simply lose boost. You lose power but the engine doesn't greanade.
Meth is fine and dandy. I ran a home built system when I was set up for blow through. It worked great and allowed me to pull 17 psi on pump gas.
I ran out in the middle of a run and rattled four psitons so badly it left aluminum in the bores.
I had to measure how long I could run before I was out of alky. On a street car it's easy to get into boost and start consuming the stuff and not know how much you've got left.
When you're out, the fun is done. It's real cool when you tell someone "yeah, I could run ya but I've got to get more alky first." Pretty lame excuse there.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#757091
07/29/10 05:10 PM
07/29/10 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Irving, TX
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Yuck, you really ride the meth wagon, don't you?
You don't use any when out of boost. Was that a trick question?
Lemme share a little info. I built a twin turbocharged 440. It's sitting in a 65 Belvedere that is totally obnoxious. I have a little mischevious streak and can be a wee bit competitive at times.
How do you thik I drive the car?
Some days it racks up the miles without ever seeing boost. Other days it doesn't go ten minutes without positive manifold pressure.
That kind of behavior will consume alky quickly.
I know about warning lights. I was using a washer bottle out of a Buick because of it's light switch.
With an air/air intercooler you never run out of alky. Nothing to worry about. Nothing to refill.
Alky injection is great. It makes power and allows you to run more boost. However, it's like nitrous on the street. When the bottle is empty, the fun is over.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: feets]
#757092
07/29/10 06:34 PM
07/29/10 06:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
When the bottle is empty, the fun is over.
The upside being it's not a big deal to carry an extra gallon of your alcohol/water mix in the trunk. I've also heard of some guys running winter windshield washer fluid. That's easy to charge up at your local gas station. I do agree with you it is nice to have one less consumable and nothing to really go wrong when running an air/air IC. Only real downside is pressure loss if you're struggling to make as much boost as possible and packaging it into your car is a lot more effort.
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: feets]
#757093
07/29/10 07:09 PM
07/29/10 07:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Yuck, you really ride the meth wagon, don't you?
You don't use any when out of boost. Was that a trick question?
Lemme share a little info. I built a twin turbocharged 440. It's sitting in a 65 Belvedere that is totally obnoxious. I have a little mischevious streak and can be a wee bit competitive at times.
How do you thik I drive the car?
Some days it racks up the miles without ever seeing boost. Other days it doesn't go ten minutes without positive manifold pressure.
That kind of behavior will consume alky quickly.
I know about warning lights. I was using a washer bottle out of a Buick because of it's light switch.
With an air/air intercooler you never run out of alky. Nothing to worry about. Nothing to refill.
Alky injection is great. It makes power and allows you to run more boost. However, it's like nitrous on the street. When the bottle is empty, the fun is over.
I like it because it's easy and cheap. And you don't have to hack more of the engine compartment up. For an all out race car, or a car that runs a ton of boost a cooler is the only way to go. It takes a lot of running to empty a jug of washer fluid. They even sell them in up to 5 gal. This guy is talking about running 6-8psi of boost. He really doesn't need either. Like I said before, local guy has been running meth/alky injection for as long as I can remember in a jubk yard half asssed 360 beat up barracuda. thing thing runs 10's w/ 3.23's and he's pushing seriuos boost w/ no air to air or water to air. I guess you just have to keep an eye on it.
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#757094
07/29/10 07:51 PM
07/29/10 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 465
Oconomowoc, WI.
Cudahlr
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mopar
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Oconomowoc, WI.
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Ive seen way too many meth injection systems that didn't work correctly, they run out, get clogged, pump stops working, etc. in my opinion I would run both, but the A2A is much more reliable setup and I think you can make more power with it.
1968 Barracuda 360/727 11.20 @ 121 mph 421 rwhp
1985 Harley Sportster Bobber
2006 Ram 2500 sport - The Cudahlr
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: Cudahlr]
#757095
07/29/10 08:52 PM
07/29/10 08:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 637
West Central Wi.
1969 HEMI R-T
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West Central Wi.
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there are a lot of great comments on here. I have decided to run both A2A and meth just for safety. my engine is a 318 very stock! I am planing on head studs, good head gaskets, new oil pump,timing chain, a QF 650, torker intake a cam from SMRE, a can of shiney paint. and let it eat! LOL! I think a bit of overkill will keep it happy. it is a 80,000 mile engine. I really am not concerned about this engine ultimatly! it is one I had laying around. I am going to build a 360, I have picked one up, but can't swing a complete build right now. so the 318 will be the same and some of the right parts will already be there. It is getting closer but agaain I will have to put it aside and catch up on some other projects. I am working on it till sunday. then it will be a while! I will post some updated pics as soon as I take some new ones!
HEMI,S ARE FOREVER!!!
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: HEMIFRED]
#757097
07/30/10 09:38 AM
07/30/10 09:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
Ive seen way too many meth injection systems that didn't work correctly, they run out, get clogged, pump stops working, etc. in my opinion I would run both, but the A2A is much more reliable setup and I think you can make more power with it.
My CTS-V Caddy had the injector either clog or pump fail. it destroyed my pistons that were factory and cast. now even using forged ones I passed on any injection . it still makes over 470 to the rear wheels which is down about 100 from before. to be hinest it's harly noticable in higway use
did the factory cover that? those cars are tight. wish I could afford one.
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#757098
07/30/10 11:38 AM
07/30/10 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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If his CTS-V puked on injection, the warranty won't cover ANYTHING. The CTS-V used an air/water cooler from the factory. Anything else you stick on there is a warranty killer.
Real drag racers are using air/water coolers and going through a 5 lb bag of ice on every run.
Alky injection is fun and should be treated like running nitrous. It should not be used as a band aid to keep an engine alive.
Air/air is best on a mild street car.
Air/water is a step up but more complicated.
His stock style 318 should be fine without any kind of cooling. Adding one would make it more fun.
I'd keep a typical head gasket in it. On a budget build, I'd much rather replace head gaksets than pistons. Think of them as a safety valve.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Snow water/meth injection or inner cooler or both?
[Re: feets]
#757099
08/03/10 04:47 PM
08/03/10 04:47 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,648
GA
Boosted
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master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,648
GA
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I am going to run a razor kit along with a front mount IC>.
2011 RAM3500
1967 Fastback Barracuda with some go fast goodies.
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