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Help with a 360 buildup
#749728
07/16/10 06:30 PM
07/16/10 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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Hey guys, looking for some opinions on what to do with a 360 I just picked up. For starters its going into a 72 Duster with a 4 speed and 3.91 sure grip 8 3/4 rear. I planned on buiding a 408 for the car but with limited funds, its not gonna happen for a while so I picked up a 73 360 with 10,000 on a rebuild with an iron 4 speed( 74 non OD) for $500. I want to build it up a little and drop it in, I'd love to get the Duster into the 12's but dont know if its gonna happen with this motor.
Anyway heres what I have...
1973 360 bored .030 with TRW(or Speed Pro) hyper or cast pistons with 4 valve reliefes, looks like the 8.5-1 variety. The cylinders look like new with no ridge with the exception of one that got a little water in it from sitting but should hone out just fine. It has an unknown cam, 1971 915 J heads that look like there in excellent shape with stainless 2.02 valves and stock exhaust valves, new looking springs ( have blue and green paint, dont know what they are), and adjustable rockers.
Right now I have a 318/ aluminum OD 4 speed in the Duster, with headers, Edelbrock performer intake, Holley 650, MP distributer and orange box.
So whats the best way to go with this motor to boost compression and power? I have a Weiand Action plus intake, a Comp xe274 cam, a Crane 278 cam,and a set of "302" closed chamber 318 heads with 1.88/1.60 valves that I started porting for the 318.
So I would like to get compression around 9.5 and with the Jheads( I hear they are around 71ccs usually) its probably 8.5ish. So do I pull the pistons in favor of flat top( 2 valve relief) hyper speed pro pistons( just swap them out) and use the J heads, shave the J heads, or ditch them and find magnum heads or use the ported "302"s. The flat tops are a little heavier than the ones I have and dont want to spend the $ to rebalance, can I get away with it?
Next would be intake, Eddy Performer, Weiand Action plus, or sell both and get the cheap crosswind(air gap copy).
Then what cam, use one of the 2 I have or sell and get a good solid cam seeing as I have adjustable rockers?
So I'd love to hear some opinions on the best way to make this fast without breaking the bank. How do the J heads flow, I could do a minor port job( gasket match and clean up the casting).I plan on swapping over the headers, carb and ignition form the 318 along with all the accessorys, and using either the iron or the aluminum od tranny.
So what do you think?
Butch
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 440Satellite]
#749731
07/19/10 09:10 AM
07/19/10 09:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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bucks down and with your gearing, I'd probably use the J heads and XE274, and the wieand intake.
live with the mid 8's compression and have fun on 87 octane swill...
maybe shave the heads .030 or so.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: patrick]
#749732
07/19/10 05:23 PM
07/19/10 05:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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Yeah I was thinking about .030-.040 off the heads will get me around 9.15-9.35 compression if I use a 4.060 bore .025 thick head gasket, that should help a little. And messing around with desktop dyno and comp's dyno program, the mopar .528 or the Comp XE 274 mechanical cams look like they would work out real well.
Do you think the intake would be limiting me? I might do some minor porting on the heads as well.
Butch
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 451Mopar]
#749735
07/20/10 06:37 AM
07/20/10 06:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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The engine was soposedly a 10,000 rebuild and by the looks of everything I think it was. Unfortunatelly some water got in 2 cylinders while it was out of a car for a while and there is some light rust in them, the others look perfect with not even a ridge at the top. I just got done tearing it down and I'm going to try to hone the cylinders to clean them up, but in one cylinder there is a couple pits at the top, dont know how this will work out. I'm thinking for a temporary engine that will see maybe 1000 miles before I build a stroker, it should work out fine.
I measured the piston down in the bore and got anywere from .045-.060, most measurements being around .050, and this is all with a cheap slide caliper as its not the most accurate for doing this.
The can had a lobe lift of .0329 so I'm taking it to be a 480 fift intake/exhaust but dont know how to judge duration.
The bottom end looks new, along with the bearings and the pistons look great, so I think I'll hone the cylinders and put it all back together.
So going from a stock 318 with a small 204@ .050 cam with .420 lift and an Eddy performer intake with 650 Holley, anything will be better as far as the 360 goes. So how much difference will I see by shaving the J heads to get compression up vs just running with the 8.5-1 compression on the 360 with a good cam?
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 440Satellite]
#749736
07/20/10 11:24 AM
07/20/10 11:24 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I think you have these speed pro ZH405CP30 pistons: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STL-H405CP30/The compression distance is 1.637" with 10cc valve reliefs. When the piston to deck height is calculated using a 9.60" block height, 3.58" stroke, and 6.123" long rods, the piston should be 0.050" below the deck. if your measurements varied front to back, then most likely the deck is not parallel to the crank which is common if the decks have not been milled. with 65cc head volume and a 0.040" head gasket (9cc) your compression would be 8.92:1. If you have the equipment to degree a cam, degree wheel and dial indicator, you can figure out the cams duration. Really, for finding duration you don't even need to zero the degree wheel, but that will help tell you the installed cam position. just zero the dial indicator when the lifter is in the base of the cam lobe, record the degree wheel values when the lifter raises to 0.006" and 0.050", and when it is 0.050" and 0.006" on the closing side. The number of degrees between the 0.006" measurements is what most rate the "advertised" duration at. The number of degrees between the 0.050" readings is the 0.050" duration of the cam.
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: Alikazam]
#749738
07/20/10 05:39 PM
07/20/10 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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Yes those are the pistons, I tore the motor down and found those #'s on the sides. The heads I have are thr 915 J heads which most claim are between 71-72-ccs so thats why I'm thinking its at 8.5-1, and would need the heads shaved to boost compression. The other option is to just run it as it is with a thin gasket and save up for same RHS LA-X heads which are 62 cc's which would bring the motor up to where I want it and then use the RHS heads on the stroker buid down the line.
And the I beileve the Crane is the powermax, part H-278-2 with a 222/234 and .467/.494 lift.
Just want something that is going to be much better than the 318 in there now to tide me over until the body and paint is done so I can save up for the stroker build. I minitubbed it and put 325/50 15 DOT drag radials on it, so it looks tough but the 318 just isnt there.
And if I have to buy parts, I'd love to be able to use them on a 408, so something like an air gap intake would be a good thing.
Butch
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 440Satellite]
#749741
07/22/10 02:17 AM
07/22/10 02:17 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Quote:
Yes those are the pistons, I tore the motor down and found those #'s on the sides. The heads I have are thr 915 J heads which most claim are between 71-72-ccs so thats why I'm thinking its at 8.5-1, and would need the heads shaved to boost compression. The other option is to just run it as it is with a thin gasket and save up for same RHS LA-X heads which are 62 cc's which would bring the motor up to where I want it and then use the RHS heads on the stroker buid down the line.
And the I beileve the Crane is the powermax, part H-278-2 with a 222/234 and .467/.494 lift.
Just want something that is going to be much better than the 318 in there now to tide me over until the body and paint is done so I can save up for the stroker build. I minitubbed it and put 325/50 15 DOT drag radials on it, so it looks tough but the 318 just isnt there.
And if I have to buy parts, I'd love to be able to use them on a 408, so something like an air gap intake would be a good thing.
Butch
I ran 9.5:1 compression (approx.) with a cam like that in my old 360 setup and ran down to 14.2's in my van (4150 lbs empty) with 3.70:1 gears and a 3000 stall converter. Mine was a blue racer cam (222/230 @ .050) but very similar to the crane H-278 cam. Good street manners too, decent idle and enough vacuum to operate the brakes no problem. Based on that I think you could definitely get close to 12'swith an A-body and that cam in your 360 setup. Mine chassis dyno'd at 290-300 whp. Good luck! 
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: Alikazam]
#749742
07/23/10 01:11 AM
07/23/10 01:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Quote:
Yes those are the pistons, I tore the motor down and found those #'s on the sides. The heads I have are thr 915 J heads which most claim are between 71-72-ccs so thats why I'm thinking its at 8.5-1, and would need the heads shaved to boost compression. The other option is to just run it as it is with a thin gasket and save up for same RHS LA-X heads which are 62 cc's which would bring the motor up to where I want it and then use the RHS heads on the stroker buid down the line.
And the I beileve the Crane is the powermax, part H-278-2 with a 222/234 and .467/.494 lift.
Just want something that is going to be much better than the 318 in there now to tide me over until the body and paint is done so I can save up for the stroker build. I minitubbed it and put 325/50 15 DOT drag radials on it, so it looks tough but the 318 just isnt there.
And if I have to buy parts, I'd love to be able to use them on a 408, so something like an air gap intake would be a good thing.
Butch
I ran 9.5:1 compression (approx.) with a cam like that in my old 360 setup and ran down to 14.2's in my van (4150 lbs empty) with 3.70:1 gears and a 3000 stall converter. Mine was a blue racer cam (222/230 @ .050) but very similar to the crane H-278 cam. Good street manners too, decent idle and enough vacuum to operate the brakes no problem. Based on that I think you could definitely get close to 12'swith an A-body and that cam in your 360 setup. Mine chassis dyno'd at 290-300 whp. Good luck!
Good running van!! Good example of how the low to
mid-range torque works on heavy vehicles. Wonder what it would do with a 50-75 hp shot nitrous!! 
Really  van!! 
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#749743
07/23/10 06:40 AM
07/23/10 06:40 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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Yeah,
Now that its all torn down and all but one cylinder looks perfect( one has a couple tiny pits at the top of the bore were water must have sat), I think I'll hone the cylinders, slap it all back together and run it and save any money to put towards a future 408. I may even use the cam that was in it seeing as it looks perfect and has a .480 lift, not sure of the duration but it must be a decent size with a .480 lift. I may find out what it will run to shave the heads .030-.040 to boost compresion, or just use a thin gasket to help a little. I'm sure even in its present state it will be much better than the 318 in the Duster.
Butch
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 440Satellite]
#749744
07/24/10 02:38 AM
07/24/10 02:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Yeah,
Now that its all torn down and all but one cylinder looks perfect( one has a couple tiny pits at the top of the bore were water must have sat), I think I'll hone the cylinders, slap it all back together and run it and save any money to put towards a future 408. I may even use the cam that was in it seeing as it looks perfect and has a .480 lift, not sure of the duration but it must be a decent size with a .480 lift. I may find out what it will run to shave the heads .030-.040 to boost compresion, or just use a thin gasket to help a little. I'm sure even in its present state it will be much better than the 318 in the Duster.
Butch
284/284-.480"I&E
That .480 lift cam is a purple shaft grind, and
with the RIGHT HARDWARE surrounding it, 13's are
a REALITY!! 
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#749745
07/24/10 08:36 AM
07/24/10 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
440Satellite
OP
super gas
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OP
super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,018
Hazlet, NJ
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I'd be happy with 13's for now till I build something better, especially for a $500 investment, which also inluded the iron A833. Just gotta deciede if I want to use the iron close ratio trans or the aluminum OD tranny. I'll probably sell the other.
What do you think would work out better, using the J heads as is with the 2.02 or a set of ported 302 closed chamber 318 heads with 1.88/1.60 valves to boost compression? I would guess that a set of ported 302's would flow about the same as an unported set of the 915 J heads. So even if they flowed the same, would the smaller runners still hurt performance? The 302's are 64cc which would get me around 9.35. The 302's are half ported as I was planning on just building up the 318 when I found the 360.
Butch
1972 Duster
318 4 speed
1958 392 Hemi engine
waiting to be built!!!!!
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: 440Satellite]
#749746
07/26/10 10:54 AM
07/26/10 10:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
Alikazam
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 571
Beaverton, OR, USA
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Depending on how far down the hole the pistons actually sit, I'd probably go with the 318 heads that have port work. Reason being is you'll want to measure to get the right head gaskets and "know" what your CR is. Comp also makes a .484/.484 lift cam too, so without getting a grind number off the cam, or seeing purple between the lobes, its only a guess that it's a purpleshaft cam. A Cam Degreeing kit will help you measure the event numbers and you can know for sure or find a grind number and look it up. Here's the comp run down of their "purple plus" .484/.484 cam: http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=641&sb=2Says needs 10:1 compression, choppy idle, 3000 stall converter, for serious street to mild race setup. 108 lobe separation angle. Hope you don't want power brakes to work!
Last edited by Alikazam; 07/26/10 11:03 AM.
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Re: Help with a 360 buildup
[Re: Alikazam]
#749747
07/26/10 04:55 PM
07/26/10 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
HYPER8oSoNic
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,275
Desert Tracker
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Quote:
Depending on how far down the hole the pistons actually sit, I'd probably go with the 318 heads that have port work. Reason being is you'll want to measure to get the right head gaskets and "know" what your CR is.
Comp also makes a .484/.484 lift cam too, so without getting a grind number off the cam, or seeing purple between the lobes, its only a guess that it's a purpleshaft cam. A Cam Degreeing kit
will help you measure the event numbers and you can know for sure or find a grind number and look it up.
Here's the comp run down of their "purple plus" .484/.484 cam:
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=641&sb=2
Says needs 10:1 compression, choppy idle, 3000 stall converter, for serious street to mild race setup. 108 lobe separation angle. Hope you don't want power brakes to work!
Good point about the 108 centerline, but Comp's
specs are a little aggresive for the Van. Chrysler
developed a .484"/.484" Purple shaft cam with a
wider centerline (112-114 degrees). Great for a heavier vehicle. Gives better drivability. Food
for
"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
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Since you are yearning for the 408 stroker, save for a more effective engine package
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