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360 magnum education #747666
07/13/10 07:05 PM
07/13/10 07:05 PM
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zrxkawboy Offline OP
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Please educate me on magnum engines. I am considering building a 360 magnum in the future for my 67 Belvedere.

I am quite familiar with LA small blocks. What are the differences I need to know about? What do I need to look for if shopping for a junkyard magnum (which years are best)?

Thanks in advance for your help!


It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!
Re: 360 magnum education [Re: zrxkawboy] #747667
07/13/10 07:27 PM
07/13/10 07:27 PM
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Eagle, Idaho
Neil Offline
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Not sure if they really changed much over the years.

These engines are famous for the heads cracking between the valves. Not sure if there are certain years of heads that are less prone to cracking?

Other stuff I can recall reading on here over the years:

No provision for a mechanical fuel pump.

Valve covers are double ugly (imo) and while older LA covers do fit the magnum heads the gaskets don't have a lot of sealing surface on the ends.

The small ends of the rods are different width so certain aftermarket pistons don't fit on the stock magnum rods, iirc.

At one time adding a carbureted LA intake to a magnum meant you had to redrill/slot the intake bolt holes. I'd imagine you can just buy a carbureted 5.9 intake that works by now.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: Neil] #747668
07/13/10 07:42 PM
07/13/10 07:42 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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depends on what you want to do.
the early one's are easier to retain the efi on. Around 93-94 era.

Anything else, the newer the better. The big changes occured 98 and up, but that is mostly computers and sensors.

They do make a couple of different carb intake's now for the mag.

They also make a bolt on thing to run a mech fuel pump, but you have to run the LA front end.
I prefer the serpentine belt setup.

LA 360 pan and gasket will work on any mag to put it in a car.

if you run a 727 neutral balanced converter, B&m makes a flex plate so you don't need to add weights or anything to make it bolt up and run.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: Neil] #747669
07/13/10 08:29 PM
07/13/10 08:29 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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1) These engines are famous for the heads cracking between the valves.

So I'm told but in 25 years as a mopar dealer tech I have never seen a set. Don't be afraid to use the stock heads. I have three sets here that are perfect.

2) No provision for a mechanical fuel pump.

Correct unless you swap to a flat slider or use one or two of the odd roller cams with long snout or get the adapter from Hughes.

LA covers fit with no problem, I have them on mine or you can run the factory covers or MP ones.

Lots of intakes you can buy or redrill the heads or even buy enginequest magnum heads with LA intake pattern from Hughes.

Balance is different, have to use 5.9 magnum flexplate or get a flywheel balanced.

Front is the same, I have an early cover on mine.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: gdonovan] #747670
07/13/10 09:35 PM
07/13/10 09:35 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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If you have not seen a crack in a magnum head you have not looked close enough. It is VERY hard to find a set that is not cracked, I have pulled tons of those motors apart and have found mabey 6 heads that I could not find a crack between valve seats, probably %90 of them are cracked, I have even seen NOS castings that were cracked. Now you got to think to yourself, do you see magnum powered trucks blowing steam out the tail pipe all the time? Neither do I. I have pulled heads off motors that ran great with low miles and no sludge(evidance of overheating) and found cracks in them If you do find cracks get them preasure tested, they are probably fine, I have never seen a set that leaked from the crack. The cracks are not huge, you need the valve seat very clean to see them, I use a wire brush in a drill, polish the crap out of the seat and get a bright light on them and you will see the cracks

On the other hand if you don't clean them up and find the cracks you can just pretend they are not there and live happily ever after.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 360 magnum education [Re: HotRodDave] #747671
07/14/10 12:06 AM
07/14/10 12:06 AM
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Hamilton, Ontario Canada
Magnum Offline
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Quote:

If you have not seen a crack in a magnum head you have not looked close enough. It is VERY hard to find a set that is not cracked, I have pulled tons of those motors apart and have found mabey 6 heads that I could not find a crack between valve seats, probably %90 of them are cracked, I have even seen NOS castings that were cracked. Now you got to think to yourself, do you see magnum powered trucks blowing steam out the tail pipe all the time? Neither do I. I have pulled heads off motors that ran great with low miles and no sludge(evidance of overheating) and found cracks in them If you do find cracks get them preasure tested, they are probably fine, I have never seen a set that leaked from the crack. The cracks are not huge, you need the valve seat very clean to see them, I use a wire brush in a drill, polish the crap out of the seat and get a bright light on them and you will see the cracks

On the other hand if you don't clean them up and find the cracks you can just pretend they are not there and live happily ever after.




+1


69 Super Bee, 93 Mustang LX, 04 Allure Super
Re: 360 magnum education [Re: HotRodDave] #747672
07/14/10 01:07 AM
07/14/10 01:07 AM
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Branson, Mo.
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joedust451 Offline
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Branson, Mo.
Quote:

If you have not seen a crack in a magnum head you have not looked close enough. It is VERY hard to find a set that is not cracked, I have pulled tons of those motors apart and have found mabey 6 heads that I could not find a crack between valve seats, probably %90 of them are cracked, I have even seen NOS castings that were cracked. Now you got to think to yourself, do you see magnum powered trucks blowing steam out the tail pipe all the time? Neither do I. I have pulled heads off motors that ran great with low miles and no sludge(evidance of overheating) and found cracks in them If you do find cracks get them preasure tested, they are probably fine, I have never seen a set that leaked from the crack. The cracks are not huge, you need the valve seat very clean to see them, I use a wire brush in a drill, polish the crap out of the seat and get a bright light on them and you will see the cracks

On the other hand if you don't clean them up and find the cracks you can just pretend they are not there and live happily ever after.




+2


75 Duster, 451 10.87 @ 123.58 NA 97 Z28 6sp., 12.01 @ 115 on a 100 shot 71 Swinger. 360 magnum. 12.58 @ 105 78 cutlass, 469 BBC. 12.70 @ 108 on street tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kqNmMfheU
Re: 360 magnum education [Re: zrxkawboy] #747673
07/14/10 06:26 AM
07/14/10 06:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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360view Offline
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There was a 3 part set of articles beginning in
Sept of 1998 in Hot Rod magazine called
'Magnum Manifesto'
that has a lot of tech info on the 360 Magnum.

Jim Szilagyi's 2004 book
"How to Build Big-Inch Mopar Small Blocks"
is perhaps the best of the books on this engine.

http://www.amazon.com/Build-Big-Inch-Mop...2151&sr=8-1

and is certainly worth the $17

the piston drawings and weights listed in all years of the Ram FSM are incorrect,
and apply to the pre-Magnum piston,
but the iron V10 has the same piston and that section of the FSM has correct numbers.
Compression height is nominally 1.622
but I measured an average of 1.626 inches.
Dish volume is nominally 11.3 cc, but Larry Shepard refers to it as 10 cc
Szilagyi's book has the correct numbers for the stock piston, plus much more for aftermarket pistons.

Combustion chamber volume is nominally 60 cc, and Larry Shepard writes that officially it should not be below 57.2 cc,
but many Magnum chambers have been measured by owners as around 62 cc,
so the range might be a sloppy 57 to 63 cc

the rocker arms are listed as 1.60 ratio nominal,
but nearly always measure higher in the 1.65 to 1.68 range

there is a lot of conflicting info on stock camshaft lift and advertised duration specs for various years

the stock Magnum valve springs have limited ability to handle higher lifts

the stock stamped steel impeller in the 360/5.9 water pump has had problems with 'cavitation corrosion' if the right anti-freeze was not used... it can look like it was 'eaten by termites'

the stock thermostat is a standard grade Robertshaw-Siebe with a steel body and brass arms which are prone to cracking after a few years

The 'belly pan' gasket below the stock intake manifold is prone to blow out near the back, perhaps caused by bolt holes that were not tapped full depth, and made worse by the plate being steel and the rest of the manifold aluminum.

1992-1993 cast iron exhaust manifolds are slightly larger internally than later years


Re: 360 magnum education [Re: HotRodDave] #747674
07/14/10 04:11 PM
07/14/10 04:11 PM
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Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:



On the other hand if you don't clean them up and find the cracks you can just pretend they are not there and live happily ever after.




As a line tech who has worked on thousands of Rams and Dakota I have yet to see a customer bring in a vehicle for cracked heads.

The facts are what they are.

Did I look for them? Of course not, there were never anyone complaining about it!

Except on moparts.

I have looked at the three sets I have here, nothing.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: gdonovan] #747675
07/14/10 05:00 PM
07/14/10 05:00 PM
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Irving, TX
feets Offline
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I think they're like the 2.2 turbo heads. The cracks aren't a defect. They're installed on the assembly line.



We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
Re: 360 magnum education [Re: feets] #747676
07/14/10 07:55 PM
07/14/10 07:55 PM
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detroit, mi
POS Dakota Offline
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Quote:

I think they're like the 2.2 turbo heads. The cracks aren't a defect. They're installed on the assembly line.






HAHA! True!

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: POS Dakota] #747677
07/14/10 11:03 PM
07/14/10 11:03 PM
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
Dartthunder340 Offline
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I believe the Magnum blocks have a provision in the rear for the crank trigger sensor or is that in the trans?


Better get inside Ma. Looks like a storm's comin'.
Re: 360 magnum education [Re: Dartthunder340] #747678
07/14/10 11:19 PM
07/14/10 11:19 PM
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Andrewh Offline
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there is a boss on the rear of the block to mount the crank sensor. But it is the transmission with the notch in it for the sensor.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: 360view] #747679
07/15/10 06:55 AM
07/15/10 06:55 AM
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USA
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360view Offline
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Anyone know how close
the compression height is
of the FORGED 1996-1998
aluminum Viper V10 piston is
compared to the
1.622 inch 1993-1995 360 Magnum piston?

or know a person
or website that would have this info?

Edit: maybe 1.388 inches?

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: 360view] #747680
07/15/10 11:04 AM
07/15/10 11:04 AM
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Iowa
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318Bruiser Offline
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Summit says it is 1.605 for a 1997 forge V10 piston.

Re: 360 magnum education [Re: 318Bruiser] #747681
07/16/10 08:24 AM
07/16/10 08:24 AM
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zrxkawboy Offline OP
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Thanks for all the replies! This is a future project, just in the planning stages, but I'm trying to learn all I can. All the info has been helpful!


It's Swifty! Swifty, you toad sucker!






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