What MSD doesn't tell you.
#747066
07/13/10 12:16 AM
07/13/10 12:16 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 112 Auburn Hills, Michigan
kieron_kohlmann
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Posts: 112
Auburn Hills, Michigan
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I posted this on the MSD page, but im sure it will get deleted. please note i experienced problem with a 7 series, but i hear a 6 MAY have problems too. So the source of my problem was this: I am using a Mopar Electronic ignition pickup. This pickup using a reluctor wheel thus producing a Sine Wave or Analog Pattern. The MSD 7 series in particular needs to see a Digital signal or square pattern to properly fire a cylinder. Anyone with an advanced knowledge of automotive electrical systems should know this. My question is why in your catalog does it clearly state: "It will accept trigger signals from points/ECU output or a magnetic pickup.". Due to your simple catalog error I have spend 2 weeks wasting time and money trying to figure out why my ignition wont work. Being the #1 Student auto tech in the nation right now i wondered how you could accurately send a signal to something as complex as a programable 7 with a sine wave. I trusted your catalog, since you hire engineers and other various electronic competent employees to perform your design/testing process. It baffles me to know that something so simple slipped by everyone there, including technical support; who insisted my 7530T was defective and had to be returned. OK, that understandable, so i buy a 7535 and install it. I still have the exact same problem, but i just spend another $700+$50 for shipping. Once again i call tech support and you insist i need a crank trigger. Why? you dont know; only because some guy in Russia had the same problem on a Monte Carlo. Nice. All i can say is there needs to be some clarification in your catalog as to the workings of an msd. I'm an 18 year old kid working at a Dodge Dealership and I can figure out why my ignition is screwing up and tech support is throwing out guesses, something is wrong with that picture. Please clarify your products so other people dont waste their time and money. Kieron Kohlmann 2010 SKILLS/USA National Winner http://racinepost-schools.blogspot.com/2010/06/kieron-kohlmann-wins-national.html
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: kieron_kohlmann]
#747069
07/13/10 12:31 AM
07/13/10 12:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315 MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
hemigod426
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,315
MOPAR HEADQUARTERS IN ALDEN NY
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hi.. what was your problem with ignition?miss fires? ive always thought mopar dizzy to be same principle as crank tigger, instead little reluctor inside with 8 points to pass magnectic pickup. ive always used 6als with m/p dizzys, but ive never seen anyone with 7 series with stock type mopar dizzy, that could be why
MOPAR OR NO CAR
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: hemigod426]
#747070
07/13/10 01:49 AM
07/13/10 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,875 communist bloc of new jersey
jamesc
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communist bloc of new jersey
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MSD = Mighty Stupid Design. yes i know they're the leader in automotive ignitions but i've never cared for the way they package their stuff. imho holley had the right idea way back when and i still use their ignitions but they just couldn't compete with msd. i'm not an engineer so i can't speak at that level. most digital stuff wants to see a square wave but afaik they can condition the sine signal and basically make it a square wave. when holley was doing their ignitions i was in close contact with the factory for a number of reasons. there was a change in the management so i ended up dealing with a different person that commented the previous individuals were OK with using a sine wave to trigger the digital but he was against it and felt it MUST be a square wave so you would need a hall effect or similar. i did get a couple hall effect sensors but never installed them as i have never had any problems with the standard sine wave magnetic pickup triggering the ignition. personally i find it hard to believe msd would design their digital ignitions so they only accept a square wave input given that most "triggers" used would probably be sine wave. i would "think" with all the R&D and engineering they have at their disposal they would have designed their digital ignition to accept a sine input but what do i know. on another note imho i wouldn't be using a stock mopar distributor to trigger an ignition of that caliber anyhow as it kinda defeats the purpose. one thing to be cautious of is trigger polarity, get it backwards and they can do all kind of strange things. on another note and don't take it personally, coming off cocky like that isn't the best way to go about things. yes you won a bunch of awards but remember this quote and it's meaning "If I have seen further it is only by standing on the shoulders of giants" you weren't born with that knowledge...someone gave it to you. fwiw my father taught auto shop at a high school and vocational level for 20 years
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#747074
07/13/10 06:24 AM
07/13/10 06:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.
Monte
X1000 Look else where.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#747075
07/13/10 07:18 AM
07/13/10 07:18 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,366 Lehigh Acres, Florida
rickstershemi
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Lehigh Acres, Florida
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Quote:
A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.
Monte
^^^^^^^^^What he said.....I know many guys running the Dig-7 with magnetic pickup dizzies
One thing to look out for is that you don't run the trigger wire next to or parallel with any power source wiring
Rickster
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: rickstershemi]
#747076
07/13/10 07:53 AM
07/13/10 07:53 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 798 Houston TX
GregCon
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Houston TX
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MSD is a so-so company. You can look to see where they are located and that should tell you plenty.
That said, there's no reason a digital device can't work off a sine wave. It happens millions of time every day in all sorts of applications. Don't forget, almost (and I mean basically all) AC power is sine wave power and there are hundreds of thousands of digital devices working in harmony with them. I'd bet a Hemi Daytona your house is powered by sine wave power that is regulated by digital controls.
Do you mean it won't work at all, or it won't work properly? Does the car start and run poorly or not at all?
Last edited by GregCon; 07/13/10 07:55 AM.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: jamesc]
#747078
07/13/10 08:17 AM
07/13/10 08:17 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410 Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
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Belpre,Ohio
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.."trigger polarity...". VERY important! I've been told by many that it makes no difference...BUT, I KNOW from past experiences that MSD must have a color blind person putting the leads in the connectors. I have recieved units wired wrong at the connectors and it will cause a bunch of different conditions, from no start, hard start, start OK but break-up at higher RPM's, irratic timing light, etc.
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: GregCon]
#747080
07/13/10 08:59 AM
07/13/10 08:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Quote:
I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.
I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.
Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.
"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.
Good product,bad quality control like most all big companys today.It's "people problems" there are no conciencious craftsmen in the work place anymore.Look at most every successful manufacture and listen to all the complaints about quality control and service from the end users..
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: GregCon]
#747081
07/13/10 09:13 AM
07/13/10 09:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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Quote:
I say MSD is so-so because their products suffer from poor QC, as others note, and their support is not so great either.
I've had an MSD 6 AL that would 'stop' all of a sudden, then 'start' again, all while I was sitting on the side of the road. I sent the box back and they charged me $50 to 'fix' it. I asked if they found something wrong and they said 'yes'. I asked what and they said (get this...) 'whatever it was that was causing it to stop working'.
Sure enough, I continued to have the same problem, only my wallet was $50 lighter.
"So-so" is what they get. When they move from Northern Mexico to somewhere where electricity is understood they might get better.
I had a high rpm miss that was driving me crazy and finally changed to my spare 7al box... problem was gone so to verify the problem I put the box back on and the problem was back (I did this 3 times to verify) and sent the box back to MSD.. they told me nothing was wrong with it BUT when I got it back the problem no longer was there with the box(I cant say for sure if they sent me a different box or not... I didnt have any special mark on it).... in the end would I junk my MSD stuff for 1 problem... let me think... NO
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#747082
07/13/10 09:15 AM
07/13/10 09:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
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Quote:
A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.
Monte
I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: B G Racing]
#747083
07/13/10 09:18 AM
07/13/10 09:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
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Left Coast
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Quote:
MSD is a so-so company,well they have pulled of one of the most successful hoaxs perpetuated on the racing community in years.I would call that "success".Some of my 7-ALs are over 20 years old and still working,even those with Mopar distributers.We don't claim to have won any awards but our reputation,customer base and profit statements speak volumes and may be part of the reason we have survived in the business for 50 years. BGR"racers helping racers" Just thought we would do a little horn tooting for the crew of "Misfits"
Yep BG. I don't know why the bad rep for some guys but there is no better ignition either now or on the horizon. They are the absolute cutting edge leader in this area.
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: BobR]
#747084
07/13/10 09:36 AM
07/13/10 09:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.
Monte
I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.
To qoute someone smarter than me"We all judge ourselves by what we think we know and who we think we are,others judge us from what we have accomplished in life"
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Re: What MSD doesn't tell you.
[Re: B G Racing]
#747085
07/13/10 09:45 AM
07/13/10 09:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165 Left Coast
BobR
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Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A digital 7 box works fine with a mopar magnetic pickup distributor, you have another issue.
Monte
I agree. That's exactly what was on my last race car. No issues at all. Sometimes a little knowledge is a bad thing.
To qoute someone smarter than me"We all judge ourselves by what we think we know and who we think we are,others judge us from what we have accomplished in life"
That's one to remember.
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