Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738355
07/02/10 08:30 AM
07/02/10 08:30 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Head flow numbers would help, but your cam will be up there in lift, probably close to .720", and for induction, if budget allows, a tunnel ram and a big stall convertor maybe a 5500. Otherwise I see low 9.80's out of that combo, but not 9.40's..
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#738357
07/02/10 09:18 AM
07/02/10 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
get some boost, that will do it. no need for 5500 stalls, 4.88 gears big lumpy cams or the like. Buddy runs 174+ in the 1/4 w/ a small block tube chasis car and 12 lbs of boost with a 4000 stall and 3.73 gears. Car will run low 8's at 200 when he feels like running the full 1/4.
Big difference between your buddies car and the OP but pressure always helps ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#738359
07/02/10 09:55 AM
07/02/10 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
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Quote:
Quote:
get some boost, that will do it. no need for 5500 stalls, 4.88 gears big lumpy cams or the like. Buddy runs 174+ in the 1/4 w/ a small block tube chasis car and 12 lbs of boost with a 4000 stall and 3.73 gears. Car will run low 8's at 200 when he feels like running the full 1/4.
Big difference between your buddies car and the OP but pressure always helps
yeah I have ADD this morning, I failed to read all his post. So I'm guessing he'll need a big roller cam to get where he needs to go. One other friend runs a 690 roller in his demon. Runs 9.80's with less compression and cubic inches (472 I think).
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738360
07/02/10 09:57 AM
07/02/10 09:57 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Quote:
heads flow around 370 . no dyno .
That's going to keep you in the upper 9's....More compression and a lighter car if possible would really help because that's going to limit your ability to hit your goal. Maybe others will chime in, but just bench racing here, that looks like a a 9.80 car, maybe 9.70's. Its going to take a hell of a good 60ft to get much better IMHO.
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738361
07/02/10 09:58 AM
07/02/10 09:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
heads flow around 370 . no dyno .
The EASIEST way is to lighten up the car (plus its easier on parts) ![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif)
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: camastomcat]
#738363
07/02/10 12:21 PM
07/02/10 12:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Getting all you can out of the heads you have is key. Notching the bores by the intake valves will probably help. My 4.5 bore 528 makes good steam with a 440-1 head. A roller cam is a definite must. If you can get a gross lift of .800, that will net you a lift in the .750 range due to lash and deflection. Good pushrods and very stout valve springs that have good harmonics (i run comp 947) will keep it all happy . Obviously you will need some very good rockers, or they won't last. A good baseline cam would be the Isky RR735, used with a 1.65 to 1.7 rocker will get you the duration and lift to make the power. This cam has 280/288/110 specs, I ran mine at 110, but you might want to try 108 installed to start. This cam, with a 1.55 rocker got me the 8.77 et in my sig at 3000 lbs. I would be tempted to go with a 2 1/8 by 30 by 4 inch header, with 6000 stall. Get more compression in it if you can, my motor has 15.1/1. My heads are cut to 62cc. I run methanol, but have been told that gas can do as well if you are willing to spin the motor some. I run .043/.043/3/16 low tension rings, and a vacuum pump. Set up your final drive ratio with a little less gear, 4.56 tops. If you can switch to a 14/32, better yet. I know this is a lot to change, but getting 840 + hp is not going to be easy, but is doable. If you have to go into the shortblock, I like more cubes, like 512 in a low deck or 528/540 in a tall deck aftermarket block. You can then order the pistons for the lighter rings. I run a terminator injection system on methanol. Pretty bullet proof once you learn how it works. Very wide tuning window with alky. I also run the Indy 3x intake, which I think will fit your plans well.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: camastomcat]
#738364
07/02/10 12:25 PM
07/02/10 12:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Quote:
B1 original or M/C heads, I always smile when someone says they get 370 CFM outta Indy-1's. I'm sure I'll get crap for that comment....ooops!
You'd really crap if you look at this. The car went 8.77 with the lower flow numbers. Looking to go 8.50s/60s soon.
Last edited by gregsdart; 07/02/10 12:27 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: gregsdart]
#738365
07/02/10 12:31 PM
07/02/10 12:31 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,418 Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula
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Quote:
Quote:
B1 original or M/C heads, I always smile when someone says they get 370 CFM outta Indy-1's. I'm sure I'll get crap for that comment....ooops!
You'd really crap if you look at this. The car went 8.77 with the lower flow numbers. Looking to go 8.50s/60s soon.
That would work for him!!!
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738366
07/02/10 02:56 PM
07/02/10 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932 NC
440Jim
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would love to hears some proven combs.
1969 Dodge Dart, 3220 lbs with driver 111" factory wheel base with stock front suspension and engine location. The front end is heavy with about 55% on the front. Koni SPA-1 front shocks and 0.840" (factory 340) torsion bars. The rear was backhalfed by the previous owner with ladder bars and single adjustble AVO shocks and 130 lb/in springs. The shocks are set kind of soft, but the rear doesn't rise or squat any appreciable amount during launch. Phoenix slicks: 31.25 x 12.2 W (measure 32.0 x 13.6) on 14" wide rims Inner tubes for stiffness (saves the sidewalls) about 200 passes until replaced. I run 11 psi and hooks basically all the time. 4.30 gears in the Dana 60 with Moser Engineering 35 spline axles 727 standard gear ratios. 9" converter stalls at 5400 rpm (same perf as my tight 8"). Foot brake staging at 2500 rpm. ----------------------------------------------------------------- 4.250" Stroke Callies Crankshaft, 4.375" bore, 511 CID BEST Machine aluminum main caps, 400 block align bored to 440 main size SCAT H-beam rods, ARP 2000 bolts, 6.535" long, 2.200/0.990 Milodon windage tray with custom crank scraper welded on
Indy 440-1 heads milled to 68cc for 13.5 CR with flat top pistons, Titainium retainers, 2.25" intake valve Indy 440-1, older Muscle Motors porting: _Lift Intake Exhaust 0.100 74.0 56.0 0.200 153.3 115.3 0.300 225.1 168.3 0.400 264.3 198.4 0.500 307.4 226.2 0.600 334.1 252.0 0.700 350.3 264.8 0.800 368.5 280.5
Solid lifter cam (flat tappet) with EDM oil hole lifters: Comp Cams MM305S-10: 305º/320º@.020", 279º/287º@.050", 197º/200º@.200", 110 LSA 0.690"/.670" lift with 1.6 Indy rockers (.650/.630 published at 1.5) Isky 9005 valve springs: 150 seat (1.95"), 440 open Indy 400-3 intake, port matched to Indy gasket Ron's Flying Toilet injection, 4.1" (1800 CFM ) with E85 fuel Custom built headers, 2-1/8” tubes 32" long, 4” collector
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738367
07/02/10 03:03 PM
07/02/10 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,932 NC
440Jim
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What headers size ? what carb ?
Money well spent on some 2-1/8" primary headers, 30-32" long. I love my Ron's injection, but a 1050 or 1100 cfm Dominator will get the job done. Although I am running a solid lifter, flat tappet cam, a roller is really the way to go if you are starting from scratch and not reusing parts like me (pushrod length, rockers, springs, retainers, bronze dist/oil pump drive, etc.)
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: 440Jim]
#738368
07/03/10 12:20 AM
07/03/10 12:20 AM
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Posts: 396 Iowa
318Bruiser
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738369
07/03/10 03:07 AM
07/03/10 03:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,021 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Looking at other cars, like 440Jims, you could go as fast as 8.90s if you want to spend the $$. It IS possible. An example of a car that uses every bit of the heads he has is my neighbor Chuck Lofgren went 9.68 with an SR headed 499, full dress 3800 lb 70 Cuda. And that was at BIR, where the air is rarely below 1800 DA. Take 500 lbs off that car, better air, and you are looking at close to 9.0s Just putting my 528 /440-1 combo in your car would net a 9.0 on a good day, and with the last mods, should have potential to push a car as heavy as yours to high 8.80s. Latest mods besides the larger intake valves are crank scraper and 1/2 inch pushrods from Manton. It is basically how light do you want to make your wallet!
Last edited by gregsdart; 07/03/10 03:11 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: Hurst390]
#738371
07/03/10 10:47 AM
07/03/10 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,926 Akron, Ohio
ProSport
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My 500" low deck is a bad mis-match of parts that we had and still goes 9.80's in good air. The cam only gives 150 cranking compression, hope to change cams soon but it is nice running on pump gas at 11.9 compression. 440-1 heads with Proparts headers, through the exhaust on a 10.5" tire, 1050 dominator, 8" converter, 4.30 geared Dana, 3200 pounds. With the right cam in your combo and careful parts picking 9.40's are within reach especially if you give it some compression. I'm also shifting at 6600 and trapping at 6900, I'm sure my heads would like more RPM but that's where I'm keeping it.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: help build me a 9.40 car !!!
[Re: EJ440]
#738373
07/03/10 12:34 PM
07/03/10 12:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293 Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
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I honestly wouldnt expect mid to low 9's out of that combo. There is a few things you could go with to help out. Most people find a vaccum pump picks them up a decent amount. Also, I agree with the suggestion of alky injection. A fly'n toilet or Terminator will be good for a .15-.2 or so. Even on a moderate compression engine like my 11.8:1 440-1 engine the injection picked it up half a tenth plus down low...60ft that is. Fact is it takes a good effort to run 9.40's with 440-1 heads at 3000+ lbs... Im sorry but 9.70's isnt no where close to 9.40's. I would guess and say near 100 hp is need to go from 9.70's to 9.40's. Well this is my experience with at least 2-3 engine combo's i have run utilizing those heads. I always let the performance at the track do the talking. I would personally have 15:1+ alky injection and lighten the car up some.
[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color] [color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
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