Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 73_dart_beast]
#736118
06/29/10 12:04 AM
06/29/10 12:04 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
I want to build a 512 stroaker and i was concidering using the cnc ported stealth heads from 440source. Anyway do any of you have thease heads? If so what type of power are they capable of making? Can the heads handle being cnc ported to the maxwedge size ports and would they flow more than the standard cnc port? Thanks in advance, have a great day...
The 440 source Stealth and Edelbrock RPM heads really are geared / sold as aluminum replacement heads that make good power, but I would not bother trying to make them into a race head. If you want a max wedge port size head, use the Indy, Edelbrock Victor M/W, B1, or (I think pro-comp may have a M/W port size head?)
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: TonyS451]
#736122
06/29/10 11:50 AM
06/29/10 11:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,083 Niles , Ohio
therocks
oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,083
Niles , Ohio
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I agree the Stealths are a good buy for what they are.My motor is pushing 600 with them and they have been on 3 years street strip.Ive heard some of the other heads suggested are cracking and porous.If you want to go Max wedge Id look at Indys.Rocky
Chrysler Firepower
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 73_dart_beast]
#736123
06/29/10 11:53 AM
06/29/10 11:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 876 Arizona
PolyDart
super stock
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super stock
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Arizona
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Quote:
Can the heads handle being cnc ported to the maxwedge size ports and would they flow more than the standard cnc port?
There is a guy on the Big Block Dart site who took his Stealth heads up to MW port size. I believe he needed to do a bit of TIG welding, but he definitely did it. If I'm not mistaken he's running 8s in an Arrow.
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: TonyS451]
#736125
06/29/10 07:17 PM
06/29/10 07:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840 Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.
Hurt some feelings , I like that. I agree, if 700hp is the number you need, and you like the Stealth value, I might look to the Pro Comp Victor copies. They are selling those for like 1500 bucks cnc ported. The Stealths could get you to 700, but would need to be a max effort type build.
the motor would be pretty hairy..not much fun on the street. 700 HP is alot for any street motor..unless forced induction or nitrous is used. Something like a 572 with SR heads is what it would take to get 700 "streetable" N/A horsepower...and thats big $$$.
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: TonyS451]
#736130
06/30/10 05:03 PM
06/30/10 05:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 136 CHANDLER, AZ
512 VALIANT
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the info. I am really looking to make a 700 HP street srtip car. To hurt some feelings here in the big easy.
Hurt some feelings , I like that. I agree, if 700hp is the number you need, and you like the Stealth value, I might look to the Pro Comp Victor copies. They are selling those for like 1500 bucks cnc ported. The Stealths could get you to 700, but would need to be a max effort type build.
I agree this is a post here on my engine, similiar #'s https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID= 700hp just doesn't fall out of trees. Stealth heads are not going to get you there.
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 512 VALIANT]
#736131
06/30/10 05:20 PM
06/30/10 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793 Utah
topbrent
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If you can be satisfied with "only" 654-HP, build a clone of this engine. It uses hand ported RPM heads. MCH cnc Stealth heads are even better. There are many combinations out there, but this one is very impressive from the parts/cost/performance standpoint. The Scott Brown built, 496 in Caper's car is simple and stout. 10.44 , 1.44 60 ft 3704lbs, street driven 654 hp , 653 ft tq http://www.buyracingparts.com/dyno-ehead496.html496 CID Wedge - pump gas street engine (10.7 to 1) Straightline rotating assembly Ported Edelbrock heads (300 CFM) Ported Victor Single Plane Straightline Flat tappet, 263/273 @ .050 4150 Carb ( Quick Fuel 1050-AN) Indy Roller rockers 1" tapered spacer
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383man
[Re: topbrent]
#736132
06/30/10 08:52 PM
06/30/10 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Quote:
If you can be satisfied with "only" 654-HP, build a clone of this engine. It uses hand ported RPM heads. MCH cnc Stealth heads are even better. There are many combinations out there, but this one is very impressive from the parts/cost/performance standpoint.
The Scott Brown built, 496 in Caper's car is simple and stout. 10.44 , 1.44 60 ft 3704lbs, street driven 654 hp , 653 ft tq
http://www.buyracingparts.com/dyno-ehead496.html 496 CID Wedge - pump gas street engine (10.7 to 1) Straightline rotating assembly Ported Edelbrock heads (300 CFM) Ported Victor Single Plane Straightline Flat tappet, 263/273 @ .050 4150 Carb ( Quick Fuel 1050-AN) Indy Roller rockers 1" tapered spacer
Thats very close to what I want to build for my 63. When I can afford the parts I plan to build it as I want it to be a 3700 lb mid 10 second pump gas street car. Thats my ultimate goal with my 63 and I was planning on using Eddy heads and the Victor intake at first. Ron
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 512 VALIANT]
#736133
06/30/10 11:35 PM
06/30/10 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 741 Carson City, NV
440sourcedotcom
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Quote:
700hp just doesn't fall out of trees. Stealth heads are not going to get you there.
We have had quite a few people break the 700 HP mark with the CNC stealth heads done by Jeff at Modern. The heads are 320+ CFM, using the standard formula which translates CFM into horsepower potential (because internal combustion engines are, after all, large air pumps) 320 CFM comes out to about 690 horsepower or so, IIRC.
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: AndyF]
#736135
07/01/10 07:49 AM
07/01/10 07:49 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542 BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL
Senior Member of the Junior Dragster Club
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BROOK PARK, OH
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First off, let me say welcome to the board
While I've never run the Stealth heads, I've heard that they can be made to flow about the same as Eddy RPM's. If that's true, Like Adny said an experienced builder should be able to get you there.
We did make a couple of pulls on my Koffel's Place built 446 with hand ported eddy heads on C 12 .
The best Gas pull of the first go around. This was with the 5555 solid cam intaslled on a 108 CL
After the bearing and spring failure, Scott decided to adv the cam to 105 to make a little more piston to valve clearence and lower the RPM range to help my springs live longer and not float the valves.
All things being equal, I'ld think the extra cubes and maybe a bigger cam than I'm running would improve those numbers.
Assuming I'm not at the limit of what the heads can feed that is
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#736137
07/01/10 03:48 PM
07/01/10 03:48 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271 Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
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I Live Here
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Quote:
This is sort of what I was getting at. I think the CNC ported stealth heads are $997 each and flow about 320 cfm. A pair of Victor M/W heads from Hughes is $1497 and I think they flow about 320 cfm out of the box (according to Edelbrock, 322 @ 0.600"?)
The Stealths do come with valve springs where the Victors don't, but the Stealth springs are not going to work with a cam that would make 700 HP numbers.
I think at the 700 HP level, both heads should be using high quality rocker systems, so the cost of the differnt rocker offsets is a wash, same for intake and exhaust.
I just bought a pair of EDE Vic MW heads w/valves for $1288, less $100 in goodies/rebates, ~$1200 to my door. Getting T&D 1.7's and some good springs, should be in at around $2800 or so ready to bolt on with some clean up porting. If I went smaller on the cam, I could run rockers which cost basically $500 or so vs. $1000 T&D's, so that would reduce the number further along with lower cost springs.
By the time you buy/port the stealths, buy good valve train and replace springs/retainers, the EDE MW are same money or less and have more room for growth, better chamber, etc.
Every product has it's target market. Nice thing about the stealth head is the look. However, you aren't going to fool anyone with a stock look BB mopar busting out 700hp. It's gotta a fouled plug line won't cut it!
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 451Mopar]
#736140
07/01/10 07:22 PM
07/01/10 07:22 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
This is sort of what I was getting at. I think the CNC ported stealth heads are $997 each and flow about 320 cfm. A pair of Victor M/W heads from Hughes is $1497 and I think they flow about 320 cfm out of the box (according to Edelbrock, 322 @ 0.600"?)
The Stealths do come with valve springs where the Victors don't, but the Stealth springs are not going to work with a cam that would make 700 HP numbers.
I think at the 700 HP level, both heads should be using high quality rocker systems, so the cost of the differnt rocker offsets is a wash, same for intake and exhaust.
you probably shouldn't get hung up on flow #'s. port cross section and chamber size and design have just as much to do with making power. put the same level of porting in to both heads and the victor headed motor will make the stealth headed motor look like it's in reverse. indy SR and 440-1 heads don't flow big numbers out of the box either, but they smoke even the ported stealth and rpm head and have way more potential. cubic feet of air is but one equation when it comes to making horsepower.
not coincidentally, of the engines i've read about with stealth or rpm heads that supposedly make 700 hp, i've yet to see any of them at the track back up what the dyno says. eventually it'll happen, but it hasn't yet.
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Re: stealth heads?
[Re: 73_dart_beast]
#736142
07/02/10 12:29 AM
07/02/10 12:29 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
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Joined: May 2008
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Aurora, Colorado
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Quote:
451, the ede victor head does look like the better deal for me. Who makes the best bang for the buck springs, rockers and shaft? The cam i am looking at is a solid roller cam 272/276 dur @.050, 620/620 lift with 1.5 and 661/661 lift with 1.6. I am thinking i want to use the 1.6 rockers. Is there a way to figure what the duration will be with the 1.6 rockers? Also because the vicktor head is taller will the extra hight be an issue in my 73 dart? Thanks for all the help yall are giving me...
I don't know what the best bang for the buck parts are. The Victors have their own issues, mainly pushrod clearance and getting the correct offset rocker arms. As far as I know only the T&D and Harlan Sharp (Indy) rockers work. I think the HS Indy rockers are 0.800" offset and the T&D rockers are 0.725" offset. That is for the M/W ports, I think the standard port victors can use the Hughes 0.600" offset rockers. Remind me to get more rocker info next week. My machine shop is building a 528" megablock with M/W victor heads and it is a blower motor. That engine is using the harlan Sharpe rockers. I have the T&D 1.6:1 rockers and both rocker systems cost about $1,000, not cheap, but if your building a 700 HP engine (even with Stealth or RPM heads) you will want to use these brands of rockers, the less expensive rockers may work, but I think they will break or wear out much sooner. I am using the PAC1325 valve springs. I was going to use the 1225 springs but they were back ordered so i got a deal on the 1325 springs. Again, these are pricy, but they should last much longer than the Comp cams springs. Believe me, you don't want to float a valve and have it break the head off at 6,500 RPM! This is the reason I had to build a new engine. You did not say if this is a "B" or "RB" build? I just got done building a 500" "B" (400 block) using the 440 source kit, the Victor M/W heads, and a mild Comp 264/264 @ 0.050", 0.714" lift cam. originally I planned to use more cam, but the piston to valve clearances were getting tight, so if you go with a larger cam, you may want to mock up the engine before ballancing it just in cast the valve pockets need to be machined deeper. I also used the BCR aluminum main caps and girdle to beef up the stock 400 block. As you can tell, this was not a "budget" engine build, but is less than some other "crate" engines in the same power range. My next upcomming build is a 512" 440 source kit in a 0.030" over 440 block (really 505".) This is for my convertible which is street driven, so I don't need big HP numbers, and I want it to look fairly stock, so I am using the 440 stealth heads on it, and a hydraulic cam. I haven't decided on an intake, but maybe a six-pack so it will fit under the hood.
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