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Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: mopar65] #728373
06/19/10 11:23 PM
06/19/10 11:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
give me a ball park figure of what width shims you need or there bouts....I may have some left over from a past project. Im almost positive they are Indy spacers/shims, maybe .125-.150 thick or around that...
I will box them up ship them out and give them to you free of charge, if you can use them....
And IF..if i still have them, and If I can find them...My garage looks like a category V hurricane swept through it...LOL...
Hows that sound man?


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: Bob_Coomer] #728374
06/19/10 11:24 PM
06/19/10 11:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
Bob that is pretty much how i did it. i frist mocked eveything up with out the push rods.one some of the intake rockers it looks like the only way i will get the rocker to be perfect is i will have to machine the side of the rocker arm.if i have to do that i will buy new rockers.but 99.9 percent of my problems i think are with the spacer springs.mopar65


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: Dodgem] #728375
06/19/10 11:28 PM
06/19/10 11:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
hi sorry no picks as of right now.i know i am trying to set them up right and it would be easier if you guys could see with your own eyes what i am talking about instead of me trying to tell you. thanks Mopar65


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: Bob_Coomer] #728376
06/19/10 11:33 PM
06/19/10 11:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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bob that is very kind of you. I will have to remove my rocker shafts and pull the spacer springs then recheck everything.I will let you know what i find out. well damn i was just informed that my Brand new $175 doller manton push rods will not work with the HS. ok now i am in a bad mood again.i dont have the money for HS rockers and push rods. so how does everybody like the hugehs roller rockers? thanks Mopar65


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: mopar65] #728377
06/20/10 12:41 AM
06/20/10 12:41 AM

A
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



by the time you buy the hughes rockers and the other stuff you need you'll probably be getting within 100.00 bucks of the complete Sharp rocker kit. there's no comparison between the two, the sharps are far superior in every aspect.

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long #728378
06/20/10 12:49 AM
06/20/10 12:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Quote:

by the time you buy the hughes rockers and the other stuff you need you'll probably be getting within 100.00 bucks of the complete Sharp rocker kit. there's no comparison between the two, the sharps are far superior in every aspect.



dan thanks for the straight up answer. well looks like i will just have to buy the HS rockers and save up some more money for new push rods. man the way i am going the car wont be done until Christmas lol. boy that bird watching is looking better by the minute lol.thanks mopar65


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long #728379
06/20/10 01:49 AM
06/20/10 01:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Quote:

by the time you buy the hughes rockers and the other stuff you need you'll probably be getting within 100.00 bucks of the complete Sharp rocker kit. there's no comparison between the two, the sharps are far superior in every aspect.


So true and, you won`t be grinding anything and with some shims for fine tuning clearances you`re on your way.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: Thumperdart] #728380
06/20/10 02:51 AM
06/20/10 02:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
C
Chris'sBarracuda Offline
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Arizona
Just use the gray PVC pipe and cut it to whatever size you need and toss the springs.

That is what Don Studley did on my heads. It worked great.
These were on Stage 6 heads with Mopar Rockers, (which were made by Crane).. And I had a .750 roller in it. Made hundreds of runs. Had a rocker failure now and then, but were talking a 100 runs or more with a large cam.



Chris..

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: Chris'sBarracuda] #728381
06/20/10 10:55 AM
06/20/10 10:55 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,569
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
Twostick  Offline
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Posts: 6,569
Downtown Roebuck Ont
I'm sure you already know this but the intake and exhaust rockers are different. If you had a couple reversed it would sure throw a cramp into your spacing. I would also ditch the spring spacers and measure what you need for solid spacers. I don't know if I would use plastic tho. Just seems wrong but if it works... If you took too much off the hold downs I would replace those as well. For fine tuning the spacing go to a Cummins dealer and get valve spring shims for an N14. They are hardened and the perfect size to fit your shafts. They come in various thicknesses from a few thou to a lot of thou and best of all they are cheap.

Kevin

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: MR_P_BODY] #728382
06/20/10 11:07 AM
06/20/10 11:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,075
Mo.
racerx Offline
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racerx  Offline
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Mo.
Quote:

To be honest I wouldnt run the Indy rockers... if you
have a line on the HS... get them



What problems are everyone are having with Indy rockers?Just asking so i wood be aware of what to look for with these Indy rockers.been running these rockers sense the build with no serous problems(knock on wood)also my cam is a solid roller with 693/706 on the lift.Thaxx.

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: mopar65] #728383
06/20/10 12:59 PM
06/20/10 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
Chattanooga,Tn
M
Mopar Racer Offline
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Chattanooga,Tn
mopar65, I am running a 512 low deck.I have the Indy 295cc Little EZ heads.I am running a set of Hughes Engines 1.5 aluminum rockers with their bananna groove shafts and their hold down kit.I am running the old Comp .650 solid cam with valve spring pressures of 170#/370#.They were easy to space out with the shim kit and I did'nt have to work on any pushrod holes in the heads for clearance.The geometry looked real nice with about 1 thread on the adusting screw on the bottom showing.I have close to 120 passes on this motor and so far I have not had any valvetrain issue's at all.(knock on wood!)If I was gonna run a solid roller with some high spring pressures I would probably go with the Harland Sharps,but I think the Hughes stuff would be just fine for any solid flat tappet cam.-MoparRacer

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long [Re: racerx] #728384
06/20/10 02:04 PM
06/20/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

Quote:

To be honest I wouldnt run the Indy rockers... if you
have a line on the HS... get them



What problems are everyone are having with Indy rockers?Just asking so i wood be aware of what to look for with these Indy rockers.been running these rockers sense the build with no serous problems(knock on wood)also my cam is a solid roller with 693/706 on the lift.Thaxx.




I guess your not running alot of spring pressure,
they dont like much pressure... they tend to fail
if you run much pressure... dont ask me how much
as I cant answer that but I would believe it also
the revs that goes along with the pressure

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long( UPDATE) [Re: mopar65] #728385
06/20/10 02:32 PM
06/20/10 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
well i just got back from mocking my rockers back up.this time i took all the shims out and the spacer springs.I am using the factory hold downs and now everything looks right.but the side of the rocker body is sitting right against the factory hold down.am i supposed to run a shim there to keep the hold down from eating into the rocker arm? the bad thing is if i put a shim there i loose my rocker to valve tip alignment and the thinest shim that cam with my hold downs is 0.015. also with trying to use the factory crane spacer springs just trying to put the shafts on with no push rods was a big pain in the Butt.looks like i just need to get some soild rocker spacers to use with these. bob here are the measurements that i got between the rocker arms

cylinder 1 0.680
cylinder 3 0.661
cylinder 5 0.670
cylinder 7 0.656

are these numbers soposed to be like this i mean all over the place? i measured each one 3 times to make sure. here is the best pic i could get of them.thanks mopar65


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long( UPDATE) [Re: mopar65] #728386
06/20/10 02:41 PM
06/20/10 02:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

well i just got back from mocking my rockers back up.this time i took all the shims out and the spacer springs.I am using the factory hold downs and now everything looks right.but the side of the rocker body is sitting right against the factory hold down.am i supposed to run a shim there to keep the hold down from eating into the rocker arm? the bad thing is if i put a shim there i loose my rocker to valve tip alignment and the thinest shim that cam with my hold downs is 0.015. also with trying to use the factory crane spacer springs just trying to put the shafts on with no push rods was a big pain in the Butt.looks like i just need to get some soild rocker spacers to use with these. bob here are the measurements that i got between the rocker arms

cylinder 1 0.680
cylinder 3 0.661
cylinder 5 0.670
cylinder 7 0.656

are these numbers soposed to be like this i mean all over the place? i measured each one 3 times to make sure. here is the best pic i could get of them.thanks mopar65




You should put a shim on the outside next to the
hold downs so it isnt steel on alum then measure the
remaining distance between the rockers... but the
outside shims should be with the rockers centered
on the stems.... if it needs to move over towards
the hold down then I would suggest getting different
hold downs, preferably alum ones that can be milled
if necessary

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long( UPDATE) [Re: MR_P_BODY] #728387
06/20/10 03:19 PM
06/20/10 03:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
Quote:

Quote:

well i just got back from mocking my rockers back up.this time i took all the shims out and the spacer springs.I am using the factory hold downs and now everything looks right.but the side of the rocker body is sitting right against the factory hold down.am i supposed to run a shim there to keep the hold down from eating into the rocker arm? the bad thing is if i put a shim there i loose my rocker to valve tip alignment and the thinest shim that cam with my hold downs is 0.015. also with trying to use the factory

crane spacer springs just trying to put the shafts on with no push rods was a big pain in the Butt.looks like i just need to get some soild rocker spacers to use with these. bob here are the measurements that i got between the rocker arms

cylinder 1 0.680
cylinder 3 0.661
cylinder 5 0.670
cylinder 7 0.656

are these numbers soposed to be like this i mean all over the place? i measured each one 3 times to make sure. here is the best pic i could get of them.thanks mopar65




You should put a shim on the outside next to the
hold downs so it isnt steel on alum then measure the
remaining distance between the rockers... but the
outside shims should be with the rockers centered
on the stems.... if it needs to move over towards
the hold down then I would suggest getting different
hold downs, preferably alum ones that can be milled
if necessary





ok mike i did as you said but hughes says there shims are 0.015 and 0.030 thick. but when i measure them with my digital caliper i get 0.012 and 0.027. well i went back with the billet steel hold downs and a 0.012 shim between the rocker and hold down on both sides.like this i think the rockers will work.it looks like this way the rocker to valve tim might be off just a very,very little to being perfect.also i put a 0.027 shim between both rockers and now come up with on number 5 0.607 and number 7 0.612 hughes sells some shaft spacers that are 0.600

http://www.hughesengines.com/Cart/cart_cart.php

will these work for me? thanks Bobby


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long( UPDATE) [Re: mopar65] #728388
06/20/10 03:32 PM
06/20/10 03:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
They should... I like to have about .015 play in the
rocker side clearance so if you can get it fine but a
little less wont kill ya

Re: I am about ready to give up!!! long( UPDATE) [Re: MR_P_BODY] #728389
06/20/10 03:57 PM
06/20/10 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,838
Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
mopar65 Offline OP
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mopar65  Offline OP
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Central Missouri Fort Leonard...
just wanted to say thanks for all the help guys. mike i just got done ordering the spacers and more shims to replace the ones i bent.So i hope this works. if not i will only be out 38 dollers.if these dont work i will order the HS thanks Bobby


3520 pound race ready 1973 Street/Strip Dodge Dart - Stock stroke 440/727 10.49 @ 125.0 on 93 pump gas & ET Street Radials. More to come... ( SGT Miller) Proudly served 12 years in the US ARMY RESERVES support our troops
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