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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: moparmojo]
#71519
06/12/08 05:17 AM
06/12/08 05:17 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Is this the ProFlo or ProFlo2 system? Is this happening when letting off the gas from a steady cruise, during cruising, or when letting off from full throttle blast?
BTW, if you are near Tucson I would be happy to try and help you out if I can.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: Jerry]
#71521
06/12/08 08:55 AM
06/12/08 08:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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not much help, but popping through the exhaust typically means its going rich on decel. popping through the intake a lot of times is due to a lean condition. most efi systems spike lean when you snap the throttle closed, and then compensate. I'd guess you need to pull a little fuel out in the closed throttle position?
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: anmracing]
#71522
06/12/08 05:58 PM
06/12/08 05:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Arizona
anmracing
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Arizona
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Dogdays,
Everything seems to be working pretty good. It started right up on the first go and runs strong. I just need to fine tune it. What kind of problems have people had that say the electronics are crappy?
Daytona Turbo,
Yup, just playing the waiting game so far. I asked them if they have any suggestion for tuner/installers in the Phoenix area too. They gave me a name and I’m going to have him take a look at it next week.
Thunderhead,
It’s the Pro-Flo. Yup, letting off the gas I was thinking the same thing as Patrick about going too rich on deceleration but I am having issues trying to figure this computer out. It’s always been a carb’d car so I’m new with computer stuff……..
I’m in Phoenix. I don’t get down to Tucson too often anymore. Too busy with work and working on the car…. Having a MOPAR and all………
I’m not sure about the O2 sensor. I thought it was a wide band but not sure.
I’ll let you all know what happens after we look at next week…..
EDIT: Thanks for all the responses. Appreciate all the help I can get.....
Last edited by anmracing; 06/12/08 06:01 PM.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: dogdays]
#71524
06/13/08 10:54 AM
06/13/08 10:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Hey, I didn't say they were but others have voiced that opinion. The problems mostly center around a lack of tunability. I had a friend put one of the kits on a 1995 suburban 5.7 and he said it ran rich pretty much all the way through the rpm range, and he was a trained dealer mechanic.
If your is working for you then more power to you! I'd like to FI my 318 poly, I am getting really tired of that Stromberg POS.
R.
I've said they were junk on MANY ocassions. Why? Because they are. The Pro Flo 2 units are supposed to have solved the myriad of problems the first gen units had. I put one(first gen) on a customers BB Chevy engine on a car I resto-modded a few years back. The very first thing I noticed was the fuel pump was completely inadequate. The second thing was the largest compatible cam was a joke. The third thing is it's VERY HARD to tune without a chassis dyno-and even pretty hard to tune with one. I had this car to two different VERY GOOD tuners and it still does not run as well as if it would have if I had just used a carb. It does start and run decently cold but that's the only advantage I see it having over a Dominator. Unless you are an EFI wiz I suggest you turn it over to one. If you ever expect to get the maximum out of the unit you will have to upgrade the pump. On the dyno there was a hundred HP difference between the supplied pump and the upgraded unit.-Bob
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#71526
06/13/08 02:06 PM
06/13/08 02:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
I though the reason to go EFI was for simple and ease of driving you know let the computer figure it out.  Doesn't the kit come with all that junk?
Lol, the computer's not that smart. You still have to do most of the 'figuring out' part of it. Although IIRC, some's now selling an efi kit that claims to be able to do it all, all on it's own. Forget the name of it though.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: anmracing]
#71528
07/01/08 10:45 PM
07/01/08 10:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
Well I've been working on it and had a local mech look at it. We managed to get to stop popping. Too rich then running lean all of a sudden.... Runs good but still have some bugs in it that I'm working out. I'm thinking the cam is not right for it even though I gave Edelbrock all the info they needed. It's just a matter of working out all the kinks at this point.
I was kinda wonderin' about the pump too. I've noticed a lot of negative threads about the pumps on several forums.
We'll see what happens, still working on it.
THE PUMP IS COMPLETELY INADEQUATE!! The rest of the package is not much better. I got stung on one of these units too so don't feel bad. I spent about 2000 bucks in dyno time at Westech Performance on two different sessions to get mine even adequate. The very knowledgeable guys at Westech basically told me they they don't know how Vic sleeps at night selling this kind of garbage. The ProFlo 2 unit has supposed to have solved many of the original's problems but I won't give them another chance. BTW the stock pump will cost you about 100 horsepower over a properly sized unit. I know this from dyno experience. -Bob
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: BobR]
#71529
07/02/08 11:57 PM
07/02/08 11:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
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I'd really like to see some real world testing of this. I mean, how long have these fuel injection set ups been on the market now and I have yet to see any one of the major Mopar magazines do a real complete in depth install "&" test. Seems like when they do any sort of article it is generic and only covers the the basic install or reasons why fuel injection itself is a good thing. I want someone to really test these kits out. Do a full blown several month test on them. Install, tuning, performance, head ache factor and real results. I want to see the Eddy set up, a FAST system, and maybe a couple others. I just read the retrotek article, but it basically missed out on how it truely performed. They said they had bugs but no real detail about what they were and how they needed to be resolved. I badly want fuel injection, but honestly at this point many on here have just convinced me it is either too above my head, my price range, and put too many doubts into my noggin about what I thought I really wanted.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#71532
07/03/08 12:13 PM
07/03/08 12:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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Quote:
I think I'll suggest to Randy @ MM to do just that - an article that compares 4 or 5 EFI systems and show the results. I already tested 7 systems but they were all on different engines. There's a missing point however; The engine dyno doesn't give you the feel that driving a car does, and it's those nasty transitions that you feel. I can get any system to run pretty good in a steady state.
You just nailed it. The Eddy unit I have now runs pretty good on the top and at a steady cruise but even after all the resources that I threw at it what you just said nails it. There are places on the throttle where it just SUCKS! -Bob
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: Mopar_Rich]
#71536
07/05/08 06:35 PM
07/05/08 06:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
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I agree with DaytonaTurbo, these real world testing I was talking about really needs to be done by an unbiased source. Either that or each manufacture in the test should have a rep on hand for fairness. Having the results come from anyone who markets or sells a related similar product would call into question it's results. So for many there may be better than the Eddy set up, but from what I understand it may be the easier to install. All these factors need to be taken into acct. For instance, I am not sure if I could build and create a megasquirt system from what I read.
I remember and article from years ago where they drove a car several hundred miles to get fuel injection installed on some car. They noted the gas and oil it drank on the trip there. Went through the install, noted it's responsivenss and change in demeanor, then filled up and recalculated how much less fuel and oil it used on the way home. This is the kind of additional info I would be after. How people felt after the swap. I understand this will be a monumental undertaking, but I think if organized correctly this could take the hobby to a new level. I still really want FI, but I am not a rocket scientist. That's why I rely on my magazine subscriptions to provide me with info & detail about the products I am interested in buying or building.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: moparmojo]
#71537
07/07/08 01:44 PM
07/07/08 01:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 576
Escondido, CA
kick_the_reverb
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 576
Escondido, CA
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Quote:
That's why I rely on my magazine subscriptions to provide me with info & detail about the products I am interested in buying or building.
Unfortunately, most of the info & detail in magazines these days is useless, and your best bet is to do a lot of internet research, and even then take everything with a grain of salt. Most magazines (not all), tend to not really report probelms (down playing them), or not provide thorough enough testing, or not expose customer service issues with the vendors (of course they can't, when the magazine calls the vendor is going to give them great customer service).
Ran
"Hey mister, something's wrong with your car, it idles roughly" - number one comment I got in Israel when daily driving a 70 Barracuda with a lopey cam.
Currently working on - 1966 Dodge A100 van 318/auto
Finally - disc brakes on the front.
In the plans - rear disc brakes, B&M 250 blower
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: 70blackfish]
#71539
07/07/08 03:22 PM
07/07/08 03:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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You won't really see difference in peak HP from EFI to a carb - IF they're both tuned right. The best A/F mixture for an engine isn't going to change, regardless of how the fuel gets in to the engine. Where I think you'll find an improvement is going to be in low-speed torque and engine response, and a lot of those functions are in spark control.
Where EFI shines is in driveability and emissions control. Those two items will help tame an engine with a big cam and low manifold vacuum, or help milder engines burn cleaner and get better mileage. A sufficiently sophisticated carb that was properly tuned might be able to pull off those same goals, but it would be tough.
The cost difference is tough. For a lot of folks, it won't be worth it, especially on a toy car that doesn't see the road much. However, if you really want to drive your race car on the street, or if you really want to hop in your small block A-body year round, rain or shine, EFI can help get that done. It might also be worth it if you just like tinkering with stuff and getting to know how your engine is really running. That's my excuse.
Clair
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#71540
07/19/08 10:58 AM
07/19/08 10:58 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Arizona
anmracing
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Arizona
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Well, I am planning on driving it a lot. It's not the primary car but it is a car that I plan to drive 2-3 times a week and of course on the weekend. So I want to be able to jump in and start her up. None of this "pump the carb three times, wait two seconds, sit on the edge of the seat, put your right foot in and take your right foot out. Do the hokie pokie and turn the key real slow, pray you don't flood it" type of starting.......  I'm not working on it as much as I would like but it's comming along. I'm still learning the system. It's running pretty good, I just have to work on the transient fuel issue. It still runs a little lean when cruising.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: anmracing]
#71541
07/19/08 11:29 AM
07/19/08 11:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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anmracing, I'm building a megasquirt efi setup for my sig car because I do daily drive it to work, the grocery store, post office, where ever else in town I need to go. So for me, with all these shorter trips and it's all stop and go driving, I think(hope) the work for EFI will be worth if. But I do have to say ever since I spent a little time tuning the stock choke on my thermoquad a couple years ago, it really does drive great when cold. Even on my tired mid 70's low compression 440, 3 pumps of the throttle, hit the key and it fires after maybe 2 complete revolutions of the motor. Starts faster than any fuel injected car I have ever known. Then let it run on the fast idle for 30 seconds, kick it and go. When the engine is already good and warm, all it takes is a quick blip of the starter, maybe one-half an engine revolution and it fires instantly. For most people with hobby mopars, IMO they would be lucky to have a carb that is as nice and driveable as this. If you're not going to use your mopar for all your daily running around(which I am in the maybe 5% of moparts users who do) I think it would be very very hard to justify the time and expense of an efi system over a well-tuned carb.
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Re: Edelbrock EFI
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#71542
07/19/08 03:18 PM
07/19/08 03:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,822
Between Houston & Galveston TX
SattyNoCar
Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
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Smarter than no class Flappergass by a mile
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,822
Between Houston & Galveston TX
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But I do have to say ever since I spent a little time tuning the stock choke on my thermoquad a couple years ago, it really does drive great when cold..........Starts faster than any fuel injected car I have ever known.... To that I add my (short) video: Starting This was first fire after sitting over night. If you look quick, you'll see the temp gauge is full left on cold. Proper tune is the key. About 5 yrs ago (  ) I took the time to basically 'blueprint' the TQ I have now. I've run a lot of different TQ's over the years, but, this one has been the best by far. The only time it doesn't start this quick is when its been sitting for a week or more, but, even then, its just a matter of getting gas into the bowls and it starts right up. I've thought about EFI because of heat issues. I've taken measures to eliminate vapor lock, but, it still gets a little funky once in awhile. If somebody could come up with a truely simple kit that ACTUALLY WORKS across ALL RPM's, is dead nuts reliable, and doesn't require me selling off a kidney to buy, I would probably take the plunge, but everytime a kit comes out, it falls short somewhere.
John
The dream is dead, long live the dream.......😥
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Most of the mag tests are useless. Even if they get it to perform well on the dyno, that means nothing as far as street manners go. Would be cool to read some back-to-back reviews of the different systems, but from an unbiased source(read: someone who DOES NOT sell an efi unit).
