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IT'S ALIVE!!! (HELP!! No Spark!) Got spark now
#705396
05/22/10 10:42 PM
05/22/10 10:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
64physhy
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
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I got my stroker dropped in, and I'm trying to start it for the break in. It cranks really slow and won't start up. The battery is at 12.6 volts, and for an added measure, I had the charger hooked up to it in the jump start mode. I only tried turning it over a couple times because I don't want to wipe out all the lube from cam, etc. The starter is a brand new mini starter from Mancini's. Where should I start?
Last edited by 64physhy; 05/24/10 10:02 PM.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: stumpy]
#705398
05/22/10 10:52 PM
05/22/10 10:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Try backing off the timing a little.
 Unplug the coil and hit the key and see if it turns over fine.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: stumpy]
#705399
05/22/10 11:07 PM
05/22/10 11:07 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
64physhy
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
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Quote:
Try backing off the timing a little. Also check and make sure you have a good paint free block ground.
I just hooked up the grounds today, and sanded to bare metal on all the ground points. I have an MSD e-curve, so to start, I set the initial timing at 5. The curve I have set is for +26 degrees at 2600 RPM's, so it will be at 31 @ 2600 RPMS, but should still only be 5 for starting.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: 64physhy]
#705400
05/22/10 11:35 PM
05/22/10 11:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Take of the ECU pentastar connector or take off the dist to coil secondary wire at the dist end and ground it then crank it & see if you're good. As said this'll confirm/deny that it is a timing prob. I'd put a breaker bar on the crank bolt & check turning resistance and I'd take out the plugs and see if it turns fast and if doing these I'd for sure take off the intake & regoop the cam. After all of your investment I would not sweat a new bathtub gasket and a bit of labor and some even reuse them (not me though).
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: RapidRobert]
#705401
05/23/10 12:13 AM
05/23/10 12:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
64physhy
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OP
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Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
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Quote:
Take of the ECU pentastar connector or take off the dist to coil secondary wire at the dist end and ground it then crank it & see if you're good. As said this'll confirm/deny that it is a timing prob. I'd put a breaker bar on the crank bolt & check turning resistance and I'd take out the plugs and see if it turns fast and if doing these I'd for sure take off the intake & regoop the cam. After all of your investment I would not sweat a new bathtub gasket and a bit of labor and some even reuse them (not me though).
I turned it by hand earlier today, and it seemed good. I just went out and hooked a timing light up to see if it it's getting spark, and it's not, so I'll start there. I did mess with some wiring; relocated the battery to the trunk, put in a cut-off switch, and added a relay for the starter. None of that should have anything to do with it getting spark, but I'm going to go stare at it for awhile until something comes to me.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: 64physhy]
#705402
05/23/10 12:20 AM
05/23/10 12:20 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Might bring the batt up front & set it under the car and wire it directly to the starter as I like to jack up the front real high to help w air pockets and some other tricks that I'm anal about after that much investment. that'd eliminate the voltage drop issue if that's causing the prob. Here's a 5 minute read on ring break in/seal that you might find interesting. "break in secrets" at www.mototuneusa.com
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: RapidRobert]
#705403
05/23/10 12:46 AM
05/23/10 12:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I agree for some reason you are not getting enough voltage at the starter to crank the motor. Better and maybe easier to just relocate the battery to the front until the motor is broke in.
I would though try two things real quick before transferring the battery.
1. With the ignition disabled get some jumper cables to the starter and somewhere on the motor for block ground to see if it turns over. This will rule out a possible binding situation with the starter. This will also tell you if you have a issue with the wiring or the strength of the battery.
2. What is the condition of the battery? Does it have a high cca rating? 800 or better? If not and the wiring is wired correctly I would also test by jumping the battery with one in another car (car running)like you would two cars.
My car currently has a old yellow top Optima. I know it is starting to get weak (about 8 years old now) as the voltage at the starter will drop down to 8.5 volts sometimes when cranking. With a jump it will spin like crazy.
How did you test for spark, without the motor turning over?
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: HealthServices]
#705404
05/23/10 01:29 AM
05/23/10 01:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
64physhy
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
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Quote:
I agree for some reason you are not getting enough voltage at the starter to crank the motor. Better and maybe easier to just relocate the battery to the front until the motor is broke in.
I would though try two things real quick before transferring the battery.
1. With the ignition disabled get some jumper cables to the starter and somewhere on the motor for block ground to see if it turns over. This will rule out a possible binding situation with the starter. This will also tell you if you have a issue with the wiring or the strength of the battery.
2. What is the condition of the battery? Does it have a high cca rating? 800 or better? If not and the wiring is wired correctly I would also test by jumping the battery with one in another car (car running)like you would two cars.
My car currently has a old yellow top Optima. I know it is starting to get weak (about 8 years old now) as the voltage at the starter will drop down to 8.5 volts sometimes when cranking. With a jump it will spin like crazy.
How did you test for spark, without the motor turning over?
After the first time, I swapped to a known good battery that's only a few months old out of my Barracuda. It's either 750 or 850 cca.
It's turning it over now, and I hooked up a timing light while cranking and it didn't flash, so that's where I figured I have no spark.
I'm done with it for tonight. I'll look into it tomorrow some more.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: 64physhy]
#705405
05/23/10 02:41 AM
05/23/10 02:41 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Make sure you have three wires going to your + side of the Coil.
- Dark blue - this powers your ignition from your key when the key is in the 'run' position.
- Brown this powers the ignition during cranking.
- Red this powers the MSD and goes to the distributor.
If you are looking at the bulk head connector (three connectors at this bulkhead) for these wires, it should be the middle connector. It will be colored like this on one side of the connector. Dark blue ignition 'key on' Black This used to go to your alternator but you cut this when you put the battery in the trunk Brown ignition 'during crank' violet you may not have this one as it goes to the temperature sending unit on the stock motor Remember Mopars need two wires to power the ignition, one for cranking and one for when the motor is running.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: 64physhy]
#705407
05/23/10 12:01 PM
05/23/10 12:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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You used the ford solenoid in the trunk for the starter right?
Unplug the signal wire to the ford solenoid in the trunk.
Now have someone turn the key over to the crank position.
Check the '+' side of the coil for voltage.
You need to have voltage to the coil during cranking too.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: HealthServices]
#705411
05/23/10 03:07 PM
05/23/10 03:07 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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So right now your motor will turn over and you have power to the coil.
The concern now is lack of spark.
Do you have a tach and is it connected?
how?
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: HealthServices]
#705412
05/23/10 04:20 PM
05/23/10 04:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
64physhy
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 154
Escondido, CA
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Quote:
Black wire for distributor is grounded.
There is a wire grounding the engine to the chassis
Rotor is in the distributor. (sorry but I have to ask)
Only one wire (orange) is on the neg side of the coil and it goes to the distributor.
Yes to all of the above.
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Re: HELP!! Won't turn over!
[Re: 64physhy]
#705415
05/23/10 04:31 PM
05/23/10 04:31 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices
Why would you even post that?
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Why would you even post that?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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I guess it would be OK to turn off the spark retard for now, until you get spark issue squared away.
Allen
Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first.
Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
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