Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Looking for 440 build suggestions #703441
05/20/10 03:27 PM
05/20/10 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
I'd like to upgrade my 69 Coronet convertible from a worn out 318 to a mild 440.

I have several core 440's sitting around to choose from, all are steel crank motors. The likely candidate would probably be either a mid 70s motor home engine with 452 heads or 68 350hp engine with 906 heads and stock 4bbl intake. I also have a few CH4B intakes and/or SixPack setups to choose from. If I go with a 4bbl, I would need a carb recommendation. The car has a Ramcharger hood and I have a correct 69 air cleaner assembly or 1970 6pk air cleaner assemblies I plan to use as well. I also expect a complete rebuild is in order, new pistons, rings, cam/lifters, cylinder head rebuilt/upgraded, etc.

Below are my desires/expectations/vehicle specs in no particular order.

The car is a weekend cruiser, I live 20 or more miles from everything, so it has to have good road manners both city/highway.

Must run on pump gas, premium or lower.
Must make good power at low rpm
Will have an auto trans, would like to convert to an overdrive trans at some point.
Rear end is an 8.75" with 2.94 sure grip, will increase gear size if/when an overdrive trans gets added.
Would like the power band to be at lower range, again, it's a driver, not a race car.
It needs to 'look' stock.
It will have 69 HP exhaust manifolds, I'm thinking 2.5" h-pipe into Hemi mufflers.

The car has air conditioning, I would like to retain that. I have a shorty sanden ac compressor and big block brackets that clears the Ramcharger air cleaner base.

I have some ideas already, but I'm open to all suggestions. I don't want to spend a fortune, but looking for some fresh ideas at the same time.

So if it were your car, what would your engine build include?

5993644-IMG_5217-2.JPG (171 downloads)
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703442
05/20/10 04:19 PM
05/20/10 04:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
best 440 with what ever heads look best, mopar 528 solid and of course the 6-pack. I'd bumb the gears to 3.23, it will be more responsive and you'll get better milage.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703443
05/20/10 08:53 PM
05/20/10 08:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
interesting cam choice, seems to contradict my goal of low rpm power.

Now, maybe a modern grind with high lift/short duration?

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703444
05/20/10 08:54 PM
05/20/10 08:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,660
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline
master
MI_Custumz  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,660
Port Huron, Michigan
Gordy Ratcliff (I think that's his name) is in Capac and known as 440 Gordy. He built a friend's RR engine and it ran in the high 12's with 3.55 gears with street tires.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: MI_Custumz] #703445
05/20/10 09:03 PM
05/20/10 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Is that the same Gordy that works weekends at Advance Auto Parts on 24th Street?

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703446
05/20/10 09:06 PM
05/20/10 09:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,660
Port Huron, Michigan
MI_Custumz Offline
master
MI_Custumz  Offline
master

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,660
Port Huron, Michigan
I am not sure. I know he's older and use to drag race a 80's Dodge Charger with a 440 dual quads on it. He did the engine for a Challenger for sale from MCB Metal Restoration. I haven't talked to him in about 15 years.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703447
05/20/10 09:46 PM
05/20/10 09:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

interesting cam choice, seems to contradict my goal of low rpm power.

Now, maybe a modern grind with high lift/short duration?




528 is a mellow cam. has plenty of down low power and with the 6-pack it will pull real hard mid-range. Remember it's only about a 500 lift cam once you set the lash and it has a nice 112 center line. If you are dead set on the 2.94's maybe you can call and have a custom cam made.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703448
05/20/10 10:00 PM
05/20/10 10:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
E
eightlitermopar Offline
top fuel
eightlitermopar  Offline
top fuel
E

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
I've run the comp XE cams and have had success with those. For a cruiser they are perfect.


Mopar or no car
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703449
05/20/10 10:12 PM
05/20/10 10:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
I realize the gearset complicates things. Ideally I would eventually go with some sort of overdrive trans and then a more aggressive gear ratio would be used with the final drive ratio comparable to 2:94 gears

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703450
05/21/10 12:18 AM
05/21/10 12:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Quote:

Quote:

interesting cam choice, seems to contradict my goal of low rpm power.

Now, maybe a modern grind with high lift/short duration?




528 is a mellow cam. has plenty of down low power and with the 6-pack it will pull real hard mid-range. Remember it's only about a 500 lift cam once you set the lash and it has a nice 112 center line. If you are dead set on the 2.94's maybe you can call and have a custom cam made.




The 528 isn't a super aggressive cam. It's a good mild street cam. If you have some decent compression it will have perfect driveability. AndyF has dyno proven the MP528 solid to be THE cam if you're dead set on running HP manifolds. The MP528 just works great with the hp manifolds. A little more $ because you have to spring for the adjustable valvetrain though. The lunati voodoo 60303 would be a good alternative if you want to save some $ and run stock rockers/pushrods and have similar performance characteristics.

For pistons/rods I would go with a set of reconditioned LY rods and set of KB237 pistons. They're a good choice because they'll give you acceptable compression with 906/452 heads yet provide a good base if you ever choose to do a set of aluminum heads in the future. Do the edelbrock rpm or 440source stealth heads now if you can afford it, later if you need to squeeze the budget right now.

With stock heads, the ch4b would be a good intake. Upgrade to the edelbrock rpm if you ever do aluminum heads because they will take advantage of the extra flow where stock heads don't flow that much.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #703451
05/21/10 08:37 AM
05/21/10 08:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
CH4B is a good intake and topped w/ a holley 750 it will really work on a mild 440 but this thing looks sooo nice.

5994959-4402.jpg (207 downloads)
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703452
05/21/10 09:44 AM
05/21/10 09:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
the ch4b probably won't fit under the ramcharger hood with the stock air cleaner. i've got a 69 r/t with a ramcharger hood and the six pak with a '70 style air filter, it's a perfect fit. i use kb 184 pistons with iron heads and prefer the engle k56/k58 cam (old hughes 2330) for performance. the mopar 272-.455 is a sleeper camshaft. i also run stock exhaust manifolds and 2 1/2" tti pipes. my car also performs better with a 3.23 rear than a 3.55 or 3.91. best e.t with the 272-.455 cam was 13.13. best mph was with the engle, 107.92. this is pump gas, t/a 225-70x15 tires and 4060lbs. this car is a very nice smooth driver, perfect cruiser.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703453
05/21/10 10:30 AM
05/21/10 10:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
What do you think of the KB236? I'd think the quench pad with the open chamber head could help combustion efficiency.

The calculated CR assuming that a 906 head has a 90cc chamber volume puts it just under 10:1 at .030 overbore. I'm speculating that a thick head gasket would probably get that down to 9.5 to 9.75:1 cr.

I'd hope that I would be just below the upper limits of running pump 93 without detonation problems.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703454
05/21/10 10:36 AM
05/21/10 10:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

What do you think of the KB236? I'd think the quench pad with the open chamber head could help combustion efficiency.

The calculated CR assuming that a 906 head has a 90cc chamber volume puts it just under 10:1 at .030 overbore. I'm speculating that a thick head gasket would probably get that down to 9.5 to 9.75:1 cr.

I'd hope that I would be just below the upper limits of running pump 93 without detonation problems.




This motor (440-6 w/ 528 solid) was around 10.5:1 (maybe more) w/ 516 heads, ran fine at 36* total and 93.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Mr.Yuck] #703455
05/21/10 10:38 AM
05/21/10 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline OP
master
Paul  Offline OP
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Are 516s are the small valve closed chamber heads?

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703456
05/21/10 11:03 AM
05/21/10 11:03 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
master
451Mopar  Offline
master

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado


So what options of intake/carb will fit with the '69 ramcharger hood?

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703457
05/21/10 11:27 AM
05/21/10 11:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Are 516s are the small valve closed chamber heads?




They are from the factory. Mine have 2.14/1.81 valves, have been as ported as you can, flow really good. Somebody dumped a ton into them. I'm guessing before alminums were made cheap. I can never recall the flow numbers but they'll do just fine for my application. Something like 270-190 @ 500.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: lewtot184] #703458
05/21/10 11:28 AM
05/21/10 11:28 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
If you did a set of KB237 pistons and milled the block a little so the pistons are at zero deck height, used a set of 906 or 452 heads and a .020 steel shim head gasket you would be right at 10:1 compression. You can drop another .4 compression if you use some .040 head gaskets. Or you can go thicker yet. The reason I suggest doing it this way is a zero deck flat top piston like the KB237 will give you a perfect base if you ever decide to do closed chambered aluminum heads, because then you can build for quench no problem.

Quote:

the ch4b probably won't fit under the ramcharger hood with the stock air cleaner.




ch4b is hardly any taller than a stock intake. It's the edelbrock rpm intake that's the tall one you would have issues with getting to fit.

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: Paul] #703459
06/18/10 10:32 AM
06/18/10 10:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Lapeer,Mi
F
flatius Offline
member
flatius  Offline
member
F

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Lapeer,Mi
"Gordy Ratcliff (I think that's his name) is in Capac and known as 440 Gordy. He built a friend's RR engine and it ran in the high 12's with 3.55 gears with street tires."

---------------------------------------
I've dealt with Mr. "440 Gordy".
He ripped me off bigtime. I always thought that people that lived in farm country were "men of their word". Not with this guy !!!
I have also learned that I was not his first victim.
What a scam artist !

Re: Looking for 440 build suggestions [Re: flatius] #703460
06/18/10 12:05 PM
06/18/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,915
A collage of whims
topside Offline
Too Many Posts
topside  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,915
A collage of whims
For a torque-motor that looks stock, I'd be inclined towards more stroke if budget allows. Carb would be an AVS, either a stock 440 w/AC carb or a newer Edelbrock, 750-800 CFM would be plenty. Stock intake or aluminum dual-plane that won't affect height. Deck the block for piston height about .006 in the hole, a good quench piston (Ross or JE). Best ARP rod fasteners. Engle split-pattern hydro cam (I run their 224/234@.050 - don't recall lift, around .510/.524 - in my 446", which sounds pretty stout but has good manners. I also run 1.6 Harland Sharp rockers. A/C will not tolerate much duration or overlap when idling.
Stealth heads would be cool, but if you're stuck with iron, polish the chambers a bit and clean up the bowls. Gasket-match the intake side (heads, not intake). No more than 9.0:1 with iron heads, 10.0 with aluminum, so you can run some meaningful vac advance for MPG. On modern gas, that's going to be an issue even in the best of circumstances. A windage tray in the pan. Your thinking on the exhaust is plenty adequate.
As cubic inches increase, the motor will tolerate more cam timing, but for steet motors I've had better results increasing lift rather than duration. Duration & overlap will bleed off compression ratio, so it would be wise to work with the CR & quench issues before committing to a cam. The FelPro 1009 gasket's a bit thick @ .039 compressed but they've been bulletproff for me even at 13.0:1.

Page 1 of 2 1 2






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1