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Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680791
04/27/10 12:05 AM
04/27/10 12:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,182
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid Offline
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CokeBottleKid  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,182
Detroit, MI
I should re-phrase that, how do you not know you're 3 quarts down, and proceed to make a pass? That's more irresponsible than a teenage kid driving their car 5k miles without so much as checking the oil .

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680792
04/27/10 03:15 AM
04/27/10 03:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
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topfueldart Offline
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Posts: 2,697
Renton Wa
Quote:

I should re-phrase that, how do you not know you're 3 quarts down, and proceed to make a pass? That's more irresponsible than a teenage kid driving their car 5k miles without so much as checking the oil .




I was gonna make a smartazz comment about it not being hard to keep the oil level high when you don't make any hits in multiple years, but then I remembered Brad took a long break too


11.48 @ 120 with a 1.80 60' 318, stock 1.88 heads, stock 904, Pump Gas, 13 lbs of boost.

9.94 @ 134, 318 on pump gas, 14 lbs w/ Eddies, transbrake 727, 3600 lbs, 3.54 gear and 28's.
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680793
04/27/10 10:13 AM
04/27/10 10:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Wondering if the cracked pickup tube could have caused the oil starvation?
I have a easy out at the shop that you can pickup at most hardware stores. I use it to remove corrated heater hose nipples from GM aluminum intake manifolds.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680794
04/27/10 11:23 AM
04/27/10 11:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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organ
Quote:

Home Despot




for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: maximum entropy] #680795
04/27/10 04:58 PM
04/27/10 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quick update: It turns out some of the piston's skirts definitely have more than just "light polishing" marks. One in particular showed some obvious scoring, although most of that seems to have cleaned up after hitting it w/ some 400 wet-or-dry and WD-40. However, the corresponding wear marks in the cylinders still make me think that I should re-hone it after touching up all the pistons.

If the pistons & cylinders hadn't show so much wear, I'd have been OK w/ putting them right back in w/ the same rings. Unfortunately, I don't think that's a reasonable option after seeing things up close.

Next step: See if my local Home Despot has one of those slick internal 1/2" pipe wrenches and take a shot at removing the broken pickup tube. Stay tuned...

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: Challenger 1] #680796
04/27/10 05:00 PM
04/27/10 05:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quote:

Wondering if the cracked pickup tube could have caused the oil starvation?




Honestly, I don't think it was cracked before I had to on it to get it to come out.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680797
04/27/10 05:02 PM
04/27/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
CBK - Isn't it time to update your signature from:

"Just me and The Haze now. It waits in darkness... soon, soon "

to:

"Just me and The Haze now. It waits in darkness... eventually, eventually " ?


Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680798
04/27/10 08:15 PM
04/27/10 08:15 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



there, now i can say i fixed something today.

Quote:

CBK - Isn't it time to update your signature from:

"Just me and The Haze now. It waits in darkness... soon, soon "

to:

"Just me and The Haze now. It waits in darkness for eternity... " ?




Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680799
04/27/10 11:23 PM
04/27/10 11:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Another update: Yep, the local HD had a set of those slick internal pipe wrenches.

And what was left of the pipe was too thick (or distorted) for any of them to work.

So I improvised using something w/ a long taper (a cylinder head stand, believe it or not) that allowed me to wedge it in and managed to get the broken piece out anyway. As easy as that came out, I'm confused why the pickup twisted and snapped off. The best news is the threads in the block still look good.

I also mocked up the new Milodon pickup I bought w/ the new pan and it doesn't fully tighten until it's turned 30-40 degrees past where it "should" stop to be level w/ the bottom of the pan. I figure it'll need some sort of sealant on the pickup that will allow me to position it properly, yet not allow for any air leaks around the perimeter of the threaded section. If anyone has any preferences for what to use here, let me know.

Also took a better look at the cylinder bores and there's no way I can just put it back together as is w/ a clear conscious. It's definitely going to need to be honed. So much for just slapping a new set of bearings in it and throwing it back in the car.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680800
04/27/10 11:35 PM
04/27/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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rowin4  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
Sorry the internal pipe wrench tool didn't work for you. If it came out that easy there might have been a crack in the tube to cause it to starve for oil. There are a number of products you could use to seal up the threaded area on the tube . You should check out the auto parts store , you need a sealant that will semi harden, and of coarse oil resistant.


it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680801
04/27/10 11:35 PM
04/27/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,182
Detroit, MI
CokeBottleKid Offline
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Posts: 8,182
Detroit, MI
Sooo still haven't answered why you don't check your oil before making passes .

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680802
04/27/10 11:38 PM
04/27/10 11:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,379
MD
Kevins493 Offline
top fuel
Kevins493  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,379
MD
He did, he's just talked to too many Stock racers.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680803
04/27/10 11:38 PM
04/27/10 11:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
I Live Here
Thumperdart  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Quote:

Sooo still haven't answered why you don't check your oil before making passes .


Dude, back off while you`re ahead..........How can someone have a car as long as you and NOT drive the damn thing.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: Thumperdart] #680804
04/27/10 11:40 PM
04/27/10 11:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
rowin4 Offline
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rowin4  Offline
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Posts: 6,257
gulfport, ms, west mi
Good one


it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: rowin4] #680805
04/27/10 11:44 PM
04/27/10 11:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Thumperdart  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
It`s my job.........some things just tweek me a bit.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: CokeBottleKid] #680806
04/28/10 12:08 AM
04/28/10 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
B
BradH Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline OP
Taking time off to work on my car
B

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Quote:

Sooo still haven't answered why you don't check your oil before making passes .



Here's the deal (and I've stated this before, but it's been months): The car had no history of oil consumption, so I rarely felt the need to check the level for normal street use. It had been less than 1000 miles since the last change and I'd ASSUMED it was fine.

Well, it turned out that a spot weld holding the front baffle in the pan had broken loose and oil was escaping through the pinhole where the weld broke. I didn't clue in to what the slightly lower oil pressure at cruising speed was trying to tell me on the way to the track, and also had a temporary glitch w/ my oil pressure sending unit while in the staging lanes that made me disregard what I believed to be bogus readings after that.

It wasn't until I my second pass that day at the track when I noticed the pressure dropped noticeably on the big end. I checked the level and found it way low, and also saw oil collecting under the engine. At that point I added oil, packed up my stuff, and drove the car home, pulling over periodically to check the level and add oil as necessary.

The amount of time it was running low on oil, including some full-out 1/4 mile passes on the track (it turns about 7000 RPM going through the traps) was all it took to do the damage I've described above.

There's really nothing else I can say on the subject.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680807
04/28/10 01:42 AM
04/28/10 01:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline
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Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
I had the same issue....I used the can of teflon paste you buy at home depot, etc. If for sealing pipes carrying steam, oil, etc.

Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680808
04/28/10 02:33 AM
04/28/10 02:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
M_D Offline
pro stock
M_D  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,361
Wild West
Quote:

Another update:

I also mocked up the new Milodon pickup I bought w/ the new pan and it doesn't fully tighten until it's turned 30-40 degrees past where it "should" stop to be level w/ the bottom of the pan. I figure it'll need some sort of sealant on the pickup that will allow me to position it properly, yet not allow for any air leaks around the perimeter of the threaded section. If anyone has any preferences for what to use here, let me know.






Brad, if you had access to the proper die the threads could be cut so the pipe threads on the block and pickup would tighten in the right location. Alternately, a pipe tap could be used to tap the block further, although I personally would rather re-work the pickup tube.



Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: M_D] #680809
04/28/10 09:38 AM
04/28/10 09:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon Offline
top fuel
cudadon  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
The pickup tube on most big block oil pans is long, and heavy.
After twice finding cracked tubes + some of my friends having cracks. I welded a brace from the windage tray to the tube to support it from G forces, oil slosh etc. That worked.
I and some of my friends have since gone to static/swinging pick ups in the pan.
Nothing quite like taking engine apart and having the pick up break off when HARDLY ANY force was exerted to remove it. Don

5951594-cordova.jpg (32 downloads)
Re: Post mortem on Challenger engine [Re: BradH] #680810
04/28/10 12:05 PM
04/28/10 12:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
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Joshs68 Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.

I also mocked up the new Milodon pickup I bought w/ the new pan and it doesn't fully tighten until it's turned 30-40 degrees past where it "should" stop to be level w/ the bottom of the pan. I figure it'll need some sort of sealant on the pickup that will allow me to position it properly, yet not allow for any air leaks around the perimeter of the threaded section. If anyone has any preferences for what to use here, let me know.



Brad could you find a thin nut and thread it onto the pickup first, then thread it into the block? kind of like indexing a spark plug? Just a suggestion/question maybe I'm way off.

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