For those that have already responded or subscribed to the below thread and are interested in putting Ford 5.0 EFI onto their Mopar, please answer the following questions. This will help gauge what future discussions we might need regarding mods for fuel and air.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=5911038&page=0

what intake manifold will you use? multiple choice
	not sure yet
	'dedicated' aftermarket manifold (Eddy Victor, Hughes AirGap, Pro-Flo XT, etc
	carb manifold converted for port-EFI
	Magnum beerbarrel
Votes accepted starting: 04/23/10 11:03 AM
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what engine will you install on? multiple choice
	Magnum smallblock
	LA smallblock
	RB-series bigblock
	B-series bigblock
Votes accepted starting: 04/23/10 11:03 AM
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will you attempt it? single choice
	perhaps, want to see how this turns out first
	yes
	never
Votes accepted starting: 04/23/10 11:03 AM
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after reading all that mess on the 5.9 EFI post, I run away form anything that complicated. It adds zero to the performace/driveabilty of a vehicle. If I did a EFI swap it would be on a 360 based magnum and I'd use the factory aftermarket performace computer and be done. That or buy a complete ready to wire in kit.

I didn't read thru your whole efi thread, but how far can you modify an engine before the ecu needs to be recalibrated? Because right off the hop you'd need to recalibrate to get the ignition timing to suit your combo, even if the maf can cover fueling on a mild motor. I know from past experience that even 80's stock ecus are a nightmare in terms of their overcomplicated programming for fuel and spark. I've seen enough there to know a cheapie megasquirt is simple in comparisin.

For someone that doesn't like EFI you sure follow that thread like a hawk! I guess it's like a really fat woman - you don't want to go near it , but yet you can't stop looking at it!

Yuck, EFI makes forced induction soooo much nicer to drive.

Dumping ANY kind of money in these old cars is throwing it away. You never get your money back. Why not build what you want instead of what other people think you should have? It's your money. Do what you want with it. Let others spend theirs the way they see fit.

Go back to your points and condenser and leave the EFI guys alone.

why can't one just use one of these???

Thank-you, Feets! Been a fan of your work for soem time!

Yuck, you do realize that you talk out of both sides of your mouth sometimes, right?

You say EFI is too expensive, but you've got a bunch of money in a 6-pack when a single 4-V would've sufficed (just quoting your rhetoric). you did it because you wanted to, so let us experiment with EFI - because **we** want to.

Then you say you'll do EFI next but you'll buy a full kit -- which is far more expensive than any DIY setup.

Some people don't have that option. Others, like me, enjoy building stuff.

I've got parts from Mercedes, Nissan, Ford, Cadillac, and even stuff from a fork lift on my car. It's a hot rod in the true sense of the word. Despite being ugly as sin, it's been featured in two magazines, used for background in a TV show, and now has a bit part in a rock and roll music video.

Sometimes there simply nothing wrong with taking your own path.

At this point, I have more time than money, so I don't mind spending time 'cobbling' something together.

I hope to find a magnum 360, but I may end up having to go with an LA 360 instead. To save money initially I was considering using the stock mag intake (assuming I find a mag 360), although the hughes re-made beer barrel looks nice, but is $700 :-0

As for the question about how they can be recalibrated, I looked into using the Moates Quarterhorse (~$250 IIRC) and Binary Editer (~$50). The QH plugs into the ECU and 'overrides' the stock settings. BE is a program where you change the settings, then 'burn' them to the QH. This gives you complete control over all the stock settings. Change the firing order, fuel/air curves, spark curves, idle speed, etc. Looks pretty slick, IMO.

I'll pull my Ford harness when I get back home and get to work

LISTEN TO YOURSELF.

Can you do it ?

If you have "Mad Squabbles" now , then show it off.

Have you guys ever looked into the ignition timing tables on a stock 80's ecu? I have on the 80's chrysler 4cyl ecus, and let me tell you it's a nightmare. I just took a quick look at a calibration again, and there are at least a dozen seperate tables that control the ignition timing curve, and these tables over-ride and overlap each other depending on the input from all the other sensors. You don't even want to know how many seperate fueling tables there are! I somehow doubt the ford is any simpler.

With a speed density ecu, I think you will be in trouble. With a maf system I think you can get away with more. MAP is MAP, however a stock 5.0 is going to have a different VE over the tps vs rpm range than any 440, and it's not going to be a simple linear change. Perhaps the o2 correction can cover it during part-throttle and you can go up/down injector size and fuel pressure to cover the full throttle. I just don't think the 5.0 ecu is going to give you the cold start or accel enrichment you will need. I think it will run, but not all that well.

I'll give you a little bit of a real-world example for you just to think about a bit. The stock 80's mopar 2.2/2.5L non-turbo engines came with a tbi system with one fuel injector, where the turbo cars had mpi with 4 injectors. Several people on the fwd mopar web boards have tried to put a turbo mpi intake in place of their tbi system and have the tbi computer fire the 4 injectors. They sized down in injectors until all 4 = the flow of the single tbi injector. The result was it runs, but not well. This is a little different than what you're doing, but not that much of a stretch. Perhaps the ford efi system is more adaptable by nature.

I'm really thinking you're going to have to recalibrate it. If you send it in for a recalibration, you'll spend enough to push the $ of this project beyond that of a megasquirt. If you buy your own burner for 40-50 bucks you can do it yourself. But by the time you add up the costs of buying the burner and junkyard ecu and harness, I think you could have bought a megasquirt. A cheapie MS-1 can do fuel and spark for what $130? And a MS-2 is $250. I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything but there are some guys running chevy 350 ecus on other applications, however they have to recalibrate them before use. Whether all this is worth it, is up to you.

Well, I am not sure how the real mustang system will work, and I don't know how different it is from a 360 to a 440, but when I was playing around with the painless system, and could not get my 5.9 to run with their base programming, I remembered people using the mustang systems before, so I slipped in the 5.0 tune program painless has for their perfect fit sytem and the car ran better.

Now granted, it I was running it on a different system. Not a MAF system at all. But the base timing and fuel tables worked pretty good for cold start and driving.
My only issues were the tables were a little lean, which the MAF should adjust for.
Spark was pretty good, but idle was a little low for my tastes.

You have found the joys of multiplexing. The fuel/timing maps interwoven on every level.

Did you get to CLOSED loop ? Was it even paying attention till you had enough time, reached a tempature, or found the O2 sensor signal sweeping?

Money I got, time I don't. Time = MONEY. I'd rather spend an extra $500 on something that is done than try and figure out how to make a pile of parts work. Plus a kit allows you some ease of mind. You have something all put pieced together, so what if one "home made" part goes bad? My days of saving $100 here and there are past.

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I would rather be stranded looking for a MAP sensor or a TPS for a Mustang than a needle and seat for a six pack or something for a mega-squirt system.
I hate carbs. I don't want to work on them or attempt to fix one. You made a comment about the driveablilty of a carb vs. the injection. Get real. The only thing I have left with a carb is my 06 Grizzley 4 wheeler and my 79 truck and both are a pain. Choke them, then let them warm up while easing the choke off and working the throttle. Give me a break. I'll take a port injected OBD2 car anyday.