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As for assembly line workers being "too lazy" to throw out the broadcast sheet....Would it not take more effort to put the complete thing behind the seat springs? If it was put there during the sub assembly, and it can't be seen after final assembly then why would it be deemed necessary to remove them and discard them?

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The assembly shop doing seat upholstery had no more than 2 minutes assy time per seat to scan the Bsheet, pull the appropriate frame, foam and upholstery into shape and hog ring it together, so rather than stand in a pile of discarded BSheets during the day, the worker threw the BS on the springs, placed the foam over it along with upholstery, hogged it, then racked it for delivery to the line,....the BS was basicaly hidden trash at that point, not the "Holy Grail" it has become

Mike

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Amen!!

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As for assembly line workers being "too lazy" to throw out the broadcast sheet....Would it not take more effort to put the complete thing behind the seat springs? If it was put there during the sub assembly, and it can't be seen after final assembly then why would it be deemed necessary to remove them and discard them?

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The assembly shop doing seat upholstery had no more than 2 minutes assy time per seat to scan the Bsheet, pull the appropriate frame, foam and upholstery into shape and hog ring it together, so rather than stand in a pile of discarded BSheets during the day, the worker threw the BS on the springs, placed the foam over it along with upholstery, hogged it, then racked it for delivery to the line,....the BS was basicaly hidden trash at that point, not the "Holy Grail" it has become

Mike

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Mostly agree but I'm pretty sure it was put there deliberately and facing outward because has anyone ever seen a broadcast sheet in the back of a seat with the printing face down??? I'm pretty sure it was put on the springs and the seat built around it so it could be read when completed, kind of a paper fender tag for the interior


MikeR

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....Case in point..In 2005, I owned a '69 superbee(pictured) that was basically an untouched survivor. Only the wheels had been changed. The broadcast sheet and fender tag(2) were missing. Just looking at the car it was obvious it is a highly optioned car. I talked to Galen about it and he said it wasn't worth being restored because of the missing tags and sheet. What a load of crap.....

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Hello Fred,
This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Someone deems themselves the "ruler" of the Hobby, proceeds to fabricate a bunch of self serving guidelines and another person walks away upset and disgruntled. I have had quite a few phone calls concerning this thread so I want to make myself a bit clearer on the subject. I think that ANY vehicle documentation is great to have and actually the best case scenario when buying/owning a car. I am NOT trying to change the importance of what this paperwork has meant to these vehicles and our Hobby. I just hope that some common sense can be used in conjunction with what has been conveyed over the past few years.

After hearing your story Fred, I want to apologize to you for what happened! It was wrong and the grief that you felt was completely unjustified. These cars have certainly become collectible commodities! With that said, would any of you get rid of your home if the Deed was lost or destroyed in a fire! Would you get rid or destroy your personal vehicle if the title was lost? Would you quit driving if you lost your driver's license? Of course NOT! So why treat these cars any differently? THEY (not the paperwork) create the importance of what they are.

One final point I want to make concerning vehicle documentation and paperwork. If you lost a title to your car and had the DMV replaced the original, would the replacement be illegal or a "fake"? If you lost your Birth Certificate and received a replacement, would the copy be considered a "fake"? If you lost your Driver's License and the DMV issued another, would it be considered a "fake"? I am not trying to politic or promote replacement paperwork, I just hope it is understood that not EVERYONE is a crook because they want replacement paperwork for their collector car. There are legitimate sources that can provide some of these documents. When we start to wrongfully label people for asking simple honest questions, we only weaken the backbone of our hobby. It is pitiful to think that some are so closed minded, that they felt the only option was to "part out" a PERFECTLY good/valuable vehicle because of some incorrect, brainwashed, opinionated rhetoric regarding documentation!

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Why did chrysler put a rolled up broadcast sheet that you can not read on the back of a glove box taped on.

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Why did chrysler put a rolled up broadcast sheet that you can not read on the back of a glove box taped on.

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It was used as a check list, it was in plain view to the folks assembling the dash assembly.

From it, they knew what color dash pad, reverse light or not, wiring harness for std. cluster or rallye cluster, & so on, even what VIN number to apply.

The back of the glovebox liner provided a clipboard of sorts, the broadcast sheet there almost always has items of importance to the dash assembly circled & / or checked off.

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Were the dashes built as an assembly with the dash pad, VIN tag, instrument cluster, radio, ash tray, glove box, trim, etc. and then installed as they do now? This would be a reason for "tagging" them with a broadcast sheet as they were being done off to the side or a completely separate area. This would help to insure the correct VIN/dash matched up with the body too. And there was no windshield before the dash was bolted in to paste the big broadcast sheet on at that point.

MikeR

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Why did chrysler put a rolled up broadcast sheet that you can not read on the back of a glove box taped on.

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It was used as a check list, it was in plain view to the folks assembling the dash assembly.

From it, they knew what color dash pad, reverse light or not, wiring harness for std. cluster or rallye cluster, & so on, even what VIN number to apply.

The back of the glovebox liner provided a clipboard of sorts, the broadcast sheet there almost always has items of importance to the dash assembly circled & / or checked off.

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The assembly shop doing seat upholstery had no more than 2 minutes assy time per seat to scan the Bsheet, pull the appropriate frame, foam and upholstery into shape and hog ring it together

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2 MINUTES!? Holy crap! I just did some seat cover work and it took me WAY longer than 2 minutes!

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Well what are the rules anyone know and who will decided what the rules are or will be in the future.

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I'd like to offer a suggestion.
A FAKE part/document is one that is not original, but is being passed off as original.
A REPRODUCTION part/document is one that is not original, but is NOT being passed off as original.
I suggest ALL reproduction parts/documents be clearly marked as such in an inconspicuous location. On parts, it should be in a place that isn't overly visible when installed, like how Dales Cuda Shop puts DCS on the backside of their door handles. On documents, it could be smack in the middle of the back side of the document. Maybe in big letters "REPRODUCTION".

Parts/documents coming from Chrysler, or approved/commissioned/licensed by Chrysler should not be required to say reproduction. They are essentially extra copies/reissues/replacements. Still, there will always be differences between assembly line parts/documents and replacements for those in the know.

There will also always be dishonest people turning reproductions into fakes. We should all be aware of this, but at the same time, we can't stop making reproductions just because there are dishonest people in the world.
_________________________________________________

Broadcast sheets/window stickers/fender tags allow people who want to learn more about how these cars were originally equipped, to do so. They are a major tool in learning about what options were originally available on what makes & models from the factory. Fake broadcast sheets are a horrible thing. They hinder the learning ability of those in the hobby. Imagine someone printing math books that said 2+3=6 and passing them out to schools. It should have been 2x3=6. Close, but a little change can make a big difference. That said, I don't have a problem with reproduction anything as long as it's clearly labeled somewhere.
One final point I want to make concerning vehicle documentation and paperwork. If you lost a title to your car and had the DMV replaced the original, would the replacement be illegal or a "fake"? If you lost your Birth Certificate and received a replacement, would the copy be considered a "fake"? If you lost your Driver's License and the DMV issued another, would it be considered a "fake"? I am not trying to politic or promote replacement paperwork, I just hope it is understood that not EVERYONE is a crook because they want replacement paperwork for their collector car. There are legitimate sources that can provide some of these documents. When we start to wrongfully label people for asking simple honest questions, we only weaken the backbone of our hobby. It is pitiful to think that some are so closed minded, that they felt the only option was to "part out" a PERFECTLY good/valuable vehicle because of some incorrect, brainwashed, opinionated rhetoric regarding documentation!
___________________________________________

I can agree with these two common sense postings.

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....Case in point..In 2005, I owned a '69 superbee(pictured) that was basically an untouched survivor. Only the wheels had been changed. The broadcast sheet and fender tag(2) were missing. Just looking at the car it was obvious it is a highly optioned car. I talked to Galen about it and he said it wasn't worth being restored because of the missing tags and sheet. What a load of crap.....

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Hello Fred,
This is exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Someone deems themselves the "ruler" of the Hobby, proceeds to fabricate a bunch of self serving guidelines and another person walks away upset and disgruntled. I have had quite a few phone calls concerning this thread so I want to make myself a bit clearer on the subject. I think that ANY vehicle documentation is great to have and actually the best case scenario when buying/owning a car. I am NOT trying to change the importance of what this paperwork has meant to these vehicles and our Hobby. I just hope that some common sense can be used in conjunction with what has been conveyed over the past few years.

After hearing your story Fred, I want to apologize to you for what happened! It was wrong and the grief that you felt was completely unjustified. These cars have certainly become collectible commodities! With that said, would any of you get rid of your home if the Deed was lost or destroyed in a fire! Would you get rid or destroy your personal vehicle if the title was lost? Would you quit driving if you lost your driver's license? Of course NOT! So why treat these cars any differently? THEY (not the paperwork) create the importance of what they are.

One final point I want to make concerning vehicle documentation and paperwork. If you lost a title to your car and had the DMV replaced the original, would the replacement be illegal or a "fake"? If you lost your Birth Certificate and received a replacement, would the copy be considered a "fake"? If you lost your Driver's License and the DMV issued another, would it be considered a "fake"? I am not trying to politic or promote replacement paperwork, I just hope it is understood that not EVERYONE is a crook because they want replacement paperwork for their collector car. There are legitimate sources that can provide some of these documents. When we start to wrongfully label people for asking simple honest questions, we only weaken the backbone of our hobby. It is pitiful to think that some are so closed minded, that they felt the only option was to "part out" a PERFECTLY good/valuable vehicle because of some incorrect, brainwashed, opinionated rhetoric regarding documentation!

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....the rhetoric opining that documentation shouldn't be worth anything is largely irrelevant...

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Hi Dave! I don't think that anyone is trying to say that the Broadcast sheet should not be "worth anything." The problem is that in some respects, the paperwork has become more significant than the actual vehicle it supposedly represents. Here is a scenario that actually happened a few years ago to a customer of mine. He bought a car but it did not have the Broadcast sheet when he bought it. At a later date he was contacted by the seller who said that he had come across some items (paperwork) while cleaning out his file cabinet. The seller wanted more money, NOT for the paperwork but for THE CAR that he had sold him a few months earlier! He would have been better off to tell the guy he wanted X amount for the Build sheet but he actually said the car was NOW worth more than what he sold it for! He said he would only give up the paperwork if the buyer agreed to pay the additional amount! While that PERCEPTION of value may have been true, what actually changed about the car? Did the vehicle morph itself into a different model when the paper work was discovered? Absolutely not! The car was exactly what it was regardless of the paperwork being found. Finding the Build sheet allowed the car to accurately be verified but in reality NOTHING changed with what he bought. (At least it was no longer a candidate for a parts car! )

It is similar to saying that a stick of gum isn't worth chewing unless you keep the wrapper! Having the wrapper might make you "feel better" about knowing that someone else hasn't touched it but there is no change in the actual piece of gum! What is more important....the gum or the wrapper? Paperwork only brings reassurance to the buyer or owner of the car. Sometimes paperwork adds value to a vehicle that is worth LESS than it actually is. Isn't THAT just as bad as "faking" paperwork to add value to a car? Why should "real" paperwork allow a lessor car to somehow be considered more valuable? Same logic only in reverse! It is the proverbial cart before the horse. How can one be acceptable while the other frowned upon?


PS....Speaking of gum wrappers, when I was a kid I chewed one of those aluminum wrappers that Juicy Fruit gum sticks come in and thought I had bit into a ball of needles! You can't do that when you have metal dental fillings.

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....the rhetoric opining that documentation shouldn't be worth anything is largely irrelevant...

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Here is a scenario that actually happened a few years ago to a customer of mine. He bought a car but it did not have the Broadcast sheet when he bought it. At a later date he was contacted by the seller who said that he had come across some items (paperwork) while cleaning out his file cabinet. The seller wanted more money, NOT for the paperwork but for THE CAR that he had sold him a few months earlier! He would have been better off to tell the guy he wanted X amount for the Build sheet but he actually said the car was NOW worth more than what he sold it for! He said he would only give up the paperwork if the buyer agreed to pay the additional amount!

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Here is a scenario that actually happened a few years ago to a customer of mine. He bought a car but it did not have the Broadcast sheet when he bought it. At a later date he was contacted by the seller who said that he had come across some items (paperwork) while cleaning out his file cabinet. The seller wanted more money, NOT for the paperwork but for THE CAR that he had sold him a few months earlier! He would have been better off to tell the guy he wanted X amount for the Build sheet but he actually said the car was NOW worth more than what he sold it for! He said he would only give up the paperwork if the buyer agreed to pay the additional amount!

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Yeah, there are all kinds of people out there and that guy certainly qualifies.....then again, I'm sure some people think the same way about me because I think a BS should be free to the person owning the car if found and a #'s motor or tranny is worth the same as a nice replacement.

I bought a house a while back and after the transaction was complete (I paid full asking price BTW), the seller found the survey certificate and offered to sell it to me for $200.00
This pce of paper was garbage to him, but I told him he could ram it and I'd pay the $500.00 to get a new survey done before I'd give him one red cent for the certificate he had......this analogy seems very similar to someone holding a BS ransom IMO.

.....and yes, before anyone suggests otherwise, I would certainly GIVE someone a BS for a vehicle they owned free of charge and I don't care if it's a Hemicuda.....right is right.


Dave