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Drive by wire in an E body #667714
04/11/10 10:48 PM
04/11/10 10:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
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minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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I don't understand this at all. How does drive by wire work? What is the change over process for my 5.7 into a 71 challenger. What all do I need, can I get every thing from a doner car, or a junk yard?


DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667715
04/11/10 10:59 PM
04/11/10 10:59 PM
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ohio, us
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dragrdan Offline
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Drive by wire has a sensor on the accelerator pedal, that tells the computer how fast you want to go. The computer then controls the actual throttle opening with a stepper or servo motor. I don't see why it couldn't be retrofit(with time and money all things automotive are possible).

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: dragrdan] #667716
04/11/10 11:17 PM
04/11/10 11:17 PM
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minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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I still don't understand, can I just get the gas pedal from a vehicle that matches my motor and mount it to the floor boards of my car, then plug in the harnes, and away I go. I have the engine, computer, and harness, am I just lacking the right pedal?


DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667717
04/11/10 11:33 PM
04/11/10 11:33 PM
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Tustin, CA
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pishta Offline
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I cant answer this but I got a question, why would you want this? Seeing Toyota has their issues with runaway throttles...I would trust a cable over a wire. good luck on what ever you choose, and be safe.

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667718
04/11/10 11:35 PM
04/11/10 11:35 PM
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dragrdan Offline
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Thats where you're gonna have to figure it out. Look at both setups, and figure out which would be better or easier (and within your skill level). You could adapt the newer pedal and sensor to your car, or adapt the sensor to the existing pedal.

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: pishta] #667719
04/11/10 11:39 PM
04/11/10 11:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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That is how this engine is designed to be operated, [electronicaly] I'm not sure if normal cabel operation is even a realistic option. Like I said, I don't know any thing about drive by wire, that is why I'm asking.


DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667720
04/11/10 11:50 PM
04/11/10 11:50 PM
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Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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I had put a drive by wire engine into a GM before (6.0 liter gen III into a '69 Camaro) and imagine a Mopar would be similar. Assuming you are talking about an engine that is already drive by wire being retrofitted into your E body. You'll need the throttle pedal along with all wiring and computers that go with the engine. Just a matter of mounting the pedal to the firewall then.

If you are talking about retrofitting drive by wire to an early engine, I personally would not bother...

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: OzHemi] #667721
04/11/10 11:53 PM
04/11/10 11:53 PM
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It's a dry heat
gtx6970 Offline
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I know someone who did it to a 68 Barracuda.

5.7 hemi with all the drive by wire controls , he said it was a piece of cake to do. Just a matter of mouning the pedal to the floor/firewall

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: OzHemi] #667722
04/12/10 12:00 AM
04/12/10 12:00 AM
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minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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Quote:

I had put a drive by wire engine into a GM before (6.0 liter gen III into a '69 Camaro) and imagine a Mopar would be similar. Assuming you are talking about an engine that is already drive by wire being retrofitted into your E body. You'll need the throttle pedal along with all wiring and computers that go with the engine. Just a matter of mounting the pedal to the firewall then. You assume right. Thanks Oz, that is exactly the answer I was looking for. I'll need to find a pedal that is right for my aplication, and fit it to my fire wall. Sounds simple enough.


DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667723
04/12/10 12:04 AM
04/12/10 12:04 AM
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Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Use the pedal that matches what the engine came out of as well...(Incase of differences year to year or body style to body style ?)

Not sure if Mopar uses them or not, but GM has a seperate drive-by-wire control computer that goes along with the PCM and engine loom as well.

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: OzHemi] #667724
04/12/10 07:01 PM
04/12/10 07:01 PM
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minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the help. More questions later.


DRIVE EM, DONT HIDE EM.
Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667725
04/12/10 08:04 PM
04/12/10 08:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Sure there are others out there who did it with a Hemi, but I can try and help in general at least

(I ended up pulling the 6.0 drive by wire engine out of the car, and went whole-hog and did this: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2682662 )

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667726
04/12/10 09:13 PM
04/12/10 09:13 PM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Dude do yourself a big fat favor and use an old school cable. Thses cars are DOGS because of the "drive by wire" Maybe if it was a 4 speed...

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: Mr.Yuck] #667727
04/13/10 02:23 AM
04/13/10 02:23 AM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
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Quote:

Dude do yourself a big fat favor and use an old school cable. Thses cars are DOGS because of the "drive by wire" Maybe if it was a 4 speed...




Problem is, if he doesn't want to do drive by wire, he won't be using the stock ecu. Can the stock ecu be recalibrated for a cable op? I thought there was some way of getting a cable op calibration without going to an aftermarket efi controller.

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #667728
04/13/10 05:09 PM
04/13/10 05:09 PM
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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They make carb'd intakes for new Hemi's so I don't see why not. The problem is the lag between when you waffle it and when it goes. Even w/ programing it's lazy. and the dealers want that. I was told since 2005 driveline warrenty work has been reduced a ton.

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: Mr.Yuck] #667729
04/13/10 08:24 PM
04/13/10 08:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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There is no way that I will ever concider putting a carb on it. Lag or not, the efi stayes. If there is a simple solution to using the cable, insted of the drive by wire, then ok. My goal is a very driveable, dependable car that I can do a 5,000 mile vacation with, if and when I want to. It will never be on the track, but I definately will on it from time to time. I do appreciate all the different views and opinions. If there is an realistic, inexpensive option to run my original set up, that would great, especiallly if it gives quicker response. Thanks every one.


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Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667730
04/13/10 08:29 PM
04/13/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi Offline
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Glad you are sticking with the EFI...I never understood the idea of getting rid of injection when doing a late engine swap...why go backwards in technology

(I am doing an LS1 swap into my Torana right at the moment, and the idea of injection was one of the reasons to go through it all)

Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ledft79] #667731
04/13/10 08:57 PM
04/13/10 08:57 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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There are several cable throttle bodies that will bolt right on, MP has a direct fit part and there is an FAST adapter usually seen on ebay that allows an ls1 TB to bolt on.

The issue then becomes 'which pcm do I use?', because drive by wire was the only thing used in production....if you want to use a stock computer, you're also stuck with drive by wire.

So, converting to a cable operated throttle body means also converting to an aftermarket pcm. There are plenty of them out there to choose from that will all work fine, but not all of them have an off the shelf harness. If you want to modify the engine and need tuning capability, consider that approach. Usually after a guy has sent his stock computer out a few times at $400 bucks a pop, this option starts to look good.

Staying with the drive by wire and production style pcm creates another potential issue not brought up yet....what trans are you going to use? If the trans requires throttle pressure/kickdown input from the throttle, then check out the Bouchillon setup/'03 DR based pedal assembly (it isn't on their website, call them up).

'03 DR pedal assembly uses a short cable connected to a black box which then sends signal to the TB. All other years and models don't have the cable or other moving parts, and could be used with mtx or applications that don't need throttle pressure/KD linkage....the extra moving parts of the '03 truck setup makes for a handy place to set up a kickdown cable for the trans.

I'm not a naysayer and I like FI, you can do this any number of ways depending on what makes sense to you...
But I have to say I'm also partial to a carb setup because it reduces the cost and complexity so much. You get a carb which you probably already have, an intake, msd box, msd harness, and you're done...it runs, and you can set the timing and fuel anywhere you want whenever you want instead of sending the OE computer out and hoping they get it right which does not happen every time.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: Mr.Yuck] #667732
04/14/10 11:48 AM
04/14/10 11:48 AM
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Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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Quote:

They make carb'd intakes for new Hemi's so I don't see why not.




You don't see why you can't simply remove a stepper motor from the system because you don't know, or want to know, how EFI and ECUs work. Your answer to everything is a carburetor, and that's not what the OP is trying to do here.


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Re: Drive by wire in an E body [Re: ZIPPY] #667733
04/14/10 11:44 PM
04/14/10 11:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 587
minot north dakota
ledft79 Offline OP
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Staying with the drive by wire and production style pcm creates another potential issue not brought up yet....what trans are you going to use? If the trans requires throttle pressure/kickdown input from the throttle, then check out the Bouchillon setup/'03 DR based pedal assembly (it isn't on their website, call them up). The trans will be a 545rfe 5 speed auto from a 94 ram, which I know sets off a string of other issues. Street and performance did give my harness a hair cut BEFORE I bought the set up, so I am not sure of all of the perticulars there. [That box is still high on the shelf.] I now have two computers, not sure if the second one is an after market from S&P or if it is for the trany, but I havn't got to that stage of concern yet. I have heard that certain tranys have there own seporate computers. Lots of good feed back from everyone,


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