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Bummer #640912
03/15/10 02:12 PM
03/15/10 02:12 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
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SD800 Offline OP
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Michigan
I was given a 69 Road Runner when I bought a Duster Race car. We'll I've had it for about 4 years now and finally have started working on the car, I removed the interior and basically stripped the car down and started working on it about 2 month ago. there was no build sheet and no fender tag because the inner fenders were cut out of it. I have the dash VIN and I got a title for the car by having a Vin inspection done by the sherrif and applying for a title through the secretary of state.
Anyway I've been strippng the 4 layers of paint off the car, It was originaly A4 silver, factory 4 spd car with a bench seat.When I pulled the windshield out I could see where the V21 hood paint was layed on top of the original A4 silver paint.
Well this weekend I got down to striping the paint off the core support and came upon the vin on the core support, I had looked for it before but could not find it, It does not match the vin on the dash, so I started sanding on the trunk seal surface and found that number as well, it matched the core support.
The number on the core support is G9 300685.It is either a Satellite or a Sport Satellite, 383 2 barrel with a 4 speed, I believe it to be a Satellite because there are no side molding holes any where, other than the holes in the doors for the RR badges
How can I tell what plant this car came from and for sure which body style it may be?


You'll have plenty of time to sleep when your dead, let's go
Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640913
03/15/10 04:44 PM
03/15/10 04:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
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a12superbee Offline
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colorado
Bummer.
The 'G' means it came from st. louis.
No way to know what the body was unless you can cross reference the last 6 digits.
I always wondered if they we're supposed to check the super secret #'s when they did a vin check.
They didn't bother looking at mine when I brought it in from out of state.


I can't afford this. mark
Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640914
03/15/10 04:52 PM
03/15/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,841
A collage of whims
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A collage of whims
Hood stripes under the windshield flange tell me it's either a GTX (RS23) or RR (RM21 coupe or RM23 HT). No hood stripes from the factory on any Belvedere, Satellite or Sport Satellite. '69 Satellite & GTX had moldings along the lower body line, SportSat didn't. GTXs were blacked out below their lower moldings, and all but Belvedere & RR would have some holes in their trunklids for decorative panels or moldings. No woodgrain or grey plastic panels on a '69 RR, those would be GTX/SportSat or Satellite, respectively. '69 RR only had the RR nameplate and a standing bird on the dash, above the rt side of the glove box.

Re: Bummer [Re: topside] #640915
03/15/10 11:05 PM
03/15/10 11:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,559
Oh
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His and Her 69's Offline
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I agree with the above post also all but the RR had wheel well trim available also. I think the sport satellite also had the rocker molding so holes would be in the rocker for them.
A lot of RR's were made at the st. Louis plant.
It still sounds like it's a RR so far to me unless you find more holes in other panels.
DRE

Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640916
03/16/10 12:43 AM
03/16/10 12:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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So what are the first five of the VIN you have, that's a big clue IMO, the we start with more "telltales"....

Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640917
03/16/10 12:46 AM
03/16/10 12:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
A12 Offline
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the last six of the VIN are not going to tell you much except that it was a late model year production, maybe June of '69 and that's about all.

Re: Bummer [Re: A12] #640918
03/16/10 12:51 AM
03/16/10 12:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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If it has drum brakes all around then I think the rr and GTX were the only models with 11" drums and backing plates, then there's the torsion bars and sway bar and .............

Re: Bummer [Re: A12] #640919
03/16/10 12:56 AM
03/16/10 12:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Did you say if it was a hardtop or coupe (post)? I'm assuming a hardtop because you think it's a Satellite or Sport Satellite which you seem to know were not made as coupes.

Re: Bummer [Re: A12] #640920
03/16/10 01:02 AM
03/16/10 01:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,518
Las Vegas, NV
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Las Vegas, NV
as said hood stripes indicate Road Runner or GTX only (can we ASSUME it is a 2 door hardtop?)
all '69 GTXs have the holes from partial wheel lip & body side mouldings along the lower body line and the cast decklid insert

9g300536 & 9g300866 are both Road Runners

is the core support opening for a 22" or 26" radiator? all 4-spd GTXs have a 26" radiator.

Re: Bummer [Re: His and Her 69's] #640921
03/16/10 08:27 AM
03/16/10 08:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,607
Pgh, PA
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Bull1tt Offline
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Pgh, PA
Quote:

I agree with the above post also all but the RR had wheel well trim available also. I think the sport satellite also had the rocker molding so holes would be in the rocker for them.
A lot of RR's were made at the st. Louis plant.
It still sounds like it's a RR so far to me unless you find more holes in other panels.
DRE




I believe no wheel opening mouldings on a '69 Road Runner

Re: Bummer [Re: 6bblgt] #640922
03/16/10 09:26 AM
03/16/10 09:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
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SD800 Offline OP
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Michigan
Guys thanks for posting.

The number on the core support is G9 300685 not 9G 300685. G is in front of the 9 The G in front of the 9 would be the engine code, it would be a 383 2 barrel, correct?

Is this how they are stamped with the motor, year and sequence number?
Or did someone transpose the number at the factory and it should be the year, plant and sequence number?
The Vin that I have the title to is RM23H9E111822

I got the Julian date off the core support it is 1559 2 I believe early June 1969, the car also has the oval hole around the gas filler tube.

The V21 hood black out paint was plainly visible when I removed the windshield seal, no one had ever removed the windshield in the three other repaints it had, the black paint starts at the end of each side of the cowl and ends short of the center, there is about 10 or 12 inches that is not painted black in the center, the paint goes through the bottom of the windshield channel and stops about one inch from the point that the outer cowl and firewall are spot welded together, this 1 inch wide surface is painted body color, A4 silver.
There are no trim holes in the quarters, no lip wheel lip molding holes either, original quarter with no rust.

I do not have the original deck lid, it has a different color on the underside.

The interior door panels are black, no fancy stuff, it has the Road Runner on the dash and the Beep Beep steering wheel.it has the shouler belt option, there were no seats in the car and no center holes for bucket seats.

It has 5 leaf springs on each side. there are exaust hangers attached to each side of the rear frame that look original so it had dual exaust.

I peeled the Black sealer from around the 4 speed hump, this was not spot welded in, it was Mig welded on the edges to the floor pan, the welds are about 3/8 to 1/2 long and about 3 or 4 inches apart, there is A4 paint on top of the welds,I also notice these same style weld on top of the drive shaft tunnel where the front and rear floor pans come together, there are like four welds on top of the tunnel and then the reat of the seam is spot welded.
I read in another post that there would be a plate spot welded to the firewall of 4 speed cars, I believe for the third peddle, there is a plate spot welded to the outside firewall that has two studs attached that are inside the car that you mount the peddle assembly to, is this the plate?
Thnak again guys, if you need pictures I can get them.

Last edited by SD800; 03/16/10 09:43 AM.

You'll have plenty of time to sleep when your dead, let's go
Re: Bummer [Re: A12] #640923
03/16/10 09:51 AM
03/16/10 09:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
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SD800 Offline OP
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Quote:

If it has drum brakes all around then I think the rr and GTX were the only models with 11" drums and backing plates, then there's the torsion bars and sway bar and .............



It has drum brakes on all four corners and has a sway bar on the front, also no power steering or brakes

Last edited by SD800; 03/16/10 09:53 AM.

You'll have plenty of time to sleep when your dead, let's go
Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640924
03/16/10 12:09 PM
03/16/10 12:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,138
East Aurora (Buffalo) NY
RoadRunner Offline
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When on the body numbers, the 9 is for the year if I am not mistaken.


68 Road Runner (383/4speed, post car w/decor pkg) - Major Project
69 Road Runner w/472 Hemi & 4 speed.
70 Challenger R/T SE EF8 w/ V9J, U - A32 - Major Project
2023 Ford Mach 1
Re: Bummer [Re: RoadRunner] #640925
03/16/10 02:30 PM
03/16/10 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,518
Las Vegas, NV
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In 1969 The body stampings consist of:
Assembly Plant (G) - Model Year (9) - VIN Sequence Number (300685)

RM23H9E111822 - your dash VIN# - would've been assembled in early October '68.
RM23H9G300685 - based on evidence found & your body stamping #s - would've been assembled late June '69.

Check anything that has a date code on it to determine which car the component is from. What were your plans with the car? Does Michigan DMV issue state VIN tags of any kind?

Re: Bummer [Re: SD800] #640926
03/16/10 02:54 PM
03/16/10 02:54 PM

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When you say that the rad. support and trunk lip numbers don't match the cars vin are you referring only to the transposed 9 & G or is the rest of the vin non matching also? If it is just the 9 & G that is the way it is supposed to be. If it is the rest of the number it sounds like a vin/body swap using the vin from a RR to either another RR or GTX as the original paint in the hidden areas would indicate with the hood treatment.

If you knew the full vin of the body and had it run by the police for a stolen car it may very well show up as stolen. This is what takes place when theives are trying to hide the ID of a stolen car by using the vin of a totaled junkyard car on the stolen car. There would be 5 possible vin prefixes to run with your hidden numbers depending on if it was a RR (coupe or hardtop) or GTX and weather it was a base engine or the optional hemi. However you may want to let a sleeping dog lie as you run the risk of having your car confiscated because it was stolen 35 or so years ago.

Of course there is another remotely possible answer to this. It could have been a factory error as in the line worker doing the hidden numbers for got to change the stamp numbers from the previous car or looked at the wrong broadcast sheet for the numbers he was stamping. We sometimes forget that these things happened 40+ years ago.

Last edited by 696pack; 03/16/10 02:59 PM.
Re: Bummer #640927
03/16/10 03:36 PM
03/16/10 03:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
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the partial VIN is enough to do a search with to determine if it's stolen or not.

You've got some serious decisions to make now, you have a car with the wrong VIN tag and the whole world now knows about it.

If it turns out to be hot, hopefully you don't have too much into it. If it's not hot, then you have a VIN tag dilemna to resolve. Good luck, I hope I never find myself in your situation.

Re: Bummer [Re: Paul] #640928
03/16/10 03:44 PM
03/16/10 03:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,371
Iowa
burdar Offline
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He already stated that he went to the DMV and got a state issued VIN. The only numbers they saw were the ones on the VIN tag. The only issue would be if the body stampings come back as a stolen car.

Re: Bummer [Re: burdar] #640929
03/16/10 03:53 PM
03/16/10 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,764
near Port Huron, MI
Paul Offline
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Quote:

He already stated that he went to the DMV and got a state issued VIN. The only numbers they saw were the ones on the VIN tag. The only issue would be if the body stampings come back as a stolen car.




Reread his first post, he got a new title, not a new VIN, through the state using the VIN tag that was attached to the dash frame. The VIN tag identifies the car as a 1969 383 road runner built at the LA plant. The body numbers say it was built at the St. Louis plant.

If the body numbers come back clean, then he will need to get a State issued VIN tag to make things all hunky dory.

Re: Bummer [Re: Paul] #640930
03/16/10 03:54 PM
03/16/10 03:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,371
Iowa
burdar Offline
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Re: Bummer [Re: 6bblgt] #640931
03/16/10 03:59 PM
03/16/10 03:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 388
Michigan
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SD800 Offline OP
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Posts: 388
Michigan
Quote:

In 1969 The body stampings consist of:
Assembly Plant (G) - Model Year (9) - VIN Sequence Number (300685)

RM23H9E111822 - your dash VIN# - would've been assembled in early October '68.
RM23H9G300685 - based on evidence found & your body stamping #s - would've been assembled late June '69.

Check anything that has a date code on it to determine which car the component is from. What were your plans with the car? Does Michigan DMV issue state VIN tags of any kind?




My first plan was to try to figure out exactly what the car was, which it is making more sense that it is a RR, thanks for your clarification on the body stamp.then I was going to have a very good friend run the VIN and find out if it was stolen or not. if not I would have him assist me in aquiring a title for it.
In Michigan if a car has not been registered in ten years and is worth less than $2,500 you can fill out an affidavit and get a title for it, they simply tax you on the value you put on the vehicle, this is how I got the title for the Vin on the dash.
once I had a legal title I was going to ask if there was anyone that would make me a VIN tag for it.I'm assuming the Vin number would be RM23H9G300685.

I did check the date code on the K frame, it is 1559, I believe that would be June 4 1969


You'll have plenty of time to sleep when your dead, let's go
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