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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#639684
03/16/10 06:19 PM
03/16/10 06:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
Deuces-Wild
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member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
My thoughts on the factory line worker is that of any person who is earning a basic minimum wage working in an industrial type environment. That being said, it was very hard to find people that were positive about their work.
If they were so positive about their work, then why would their be dripping spots of primer underneath the body of our cars, build sheets put wherever they wanted, or paint jobs that fall short of current standards of today? My point being is that they did not care. Just wanted to get the job done and earn their wage to support their families just like any person today wants to do.
My issue with the hobby are the types where they have a heart attack over a starter relay not having the right part number on it. Or I'll drive my 80' malibu and older guys are like " Why did you stick with iron heads, for an extra 200$ you could have had aluminums". The problem that makes me stay away from car shows so much is that the "older crowd" critiques and bashes on the younger guys so much that the hobby no longer becomes fun. It makes us think that no matter what we do, we will never gain respect from the past generation. Can't blame some of the other kids my age for driving ricers, cause all it does is piss the last generation off.
Right you are about the extremists who frown on non OE cars but you have that in any hobby, sport, passion, etc... Whats great about our passion is that the majority of folks LOVE cars (esp. MOPARS) and can appreciate a survivor, a perfect 100 pt. resto, a resto-Mod or even a custom. This keeps the fun in it.. And at the end of the day the true "value" of any car is purely subjective and is meaningless until someone is actually writing a check!
Ps. Its good to see the next gen stepping in to keep the passion for early muscle alive...
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: Deuces-Wild]
#639685
03/16/10 07:29 PM
03/16/10 07:29 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
My thoughts on the factory line worker is that of any person who is earning a basic minimum wage working in an industrial type environment. That being said, it was very hard to find people that were positive about their work.
If they were so positive about their work, then why would their be dripping spots of primer underneath the body of our cars, build sheets put wherever they wanted, or paint jobs that fall short of current standards of today? My point being is that they did not care. Just wanted to get the job done and earn their wage to support their families just like any person today wants to do.
My issue with the hobby are the types where they have a heart attack over a starter relay not having the right part number on it. Or I'll drive my 80' malibu and older guys are like " Why did you stick with iron heads, for an extra 200$ you could have had aluminums". The problem that makes me stay away from car shows so much is that the "older crowd" critiques and bashes on the younger guys so much that the hobby no longer becomes fun. It makes us think that no matter what we do, we will never gain respect from the past generation. Can't blame some of the other kids my age for driving ricers, cause all it does is piss the last generation off.
Right you are about the extremists who frown on non OE cars but you have that in any hobby, sport, passion, etc... Whats great about our passion is that the majority of folks LOVE cars (esp. MOPARS) and can appreciate a survivor, a perfect 100 pt. resto, a resto-Mod or even a custom. This keeps the fun in it.. And at the end of the day the true "value" of any car is purely subjective and is meaningless until someone is actually writing a check!
Ps. Its good to see the next gen stepping in to keep the passion for early muscle alive...
Well said.
I enjoy going to the weekend all models parking lot shows. i could care less about watching an OEM judging show. I appreciate the time and effort that go into those type cars but would never do one myself.
I can appreciate most any old muscle car be it original or modified.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: RoadRunnerJD]
#639687
03/16/10 09:07 PM
03/16/10 09:07 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
I think it's the other way around? You have way more extremists who frown on those striving for an OE car. The OE guys I meet are generally all enthusiasts with varied experience. Just because they prefer what they're doing doesn't mean they frown upon anyone elses likes. There are plenty of guys who get on here that are trying to present their cars as restored that just open themselves up to constructive criticism. Some are looking for it and some resent it. Most of the time, it's a misunderstanding by the rest of the participants who don't even have a dog in the fight! 
The only people I notice snubbing anyone in the hobby are the purists that turn their noses up at the clone cars. It reminds me of the upper crust socialites that snub the regular working man. It is like everything there are always exceptions.
I do hear the regular guys remarking that they think the OEM guys are nuts with some of the extremes they go to and the money they spend but they still appreciate the good looking end result. It is more of a failure to understand why they aren't into the cars for their original purpose--to drive and beat on.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639688
03/16/10 09:07 PM
03/16/10 09:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,379
KY USA
mopargem
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,379
KY USA
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Quote:
Sorry if I offended you but it is a fact.
No slight on those people just a fact that the uneducated were looking to better themselves. Many of those assembly line jobs did not require the ability to read or write and were very repetitive simple jobs. Unfortunately, sometimes a supervisor would switch them to a job that did require it without knowing they couldn't and it caused problems until straighted out.
it ok darel me no fended i just borned hear an a prawd southner 
Seriously, I was kidding with my first reply, you made it sound like the Grapes of Wrath migration, you're probably right but I bet it started after the war when car sales started to boom late 40's 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: mopargem]
#639689
03/16/10 09:47 PM
03/16/10 09:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
Paul Jacobs
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
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I have to wonder if ones background has anything to do with our opinions on this subject? I grew up pretty poor and scraped for every penny I had to fix up my cars. I was mostly just into street racing until I got bored doing that and then got into the show car thing. I built a killer show car for myself, and after 4 years of not driving it much, I sold it. I would not build another stock OE car for myself, but I can see why some people do. It's no different for them than it is for someone to buy an old house and restore it to it's original beauty. It's very much about the journey than the destination-they love the hunt and the challenge. As far as economics, I don't think ANYONE OF US are in our right minds. Some of you guys don't realize that while the OE crowd may have a lot of money in their cars, you probably have years of work into your cars. So if you took the hours you have in your car, and figured an hourly rate, you too would have a tin of money in your car. Some people say "well my time is free" I say is it really? Maybe it is, but to some people time is more of a valuable asset than money as that is the time they are withh their family. To me, money building my car is no object-not because I have much of it but I'm spanning it over 4 years! I just guess I love cars so much I appreciate anyones creativity-even drag cars. 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: mopargem]
#639690
03/16/10 09:48 PM
03/16/10 09:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
moparmojo
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,587
missouri, USA
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Well I for one dont but the resto vs modified argument. For one, both terms can be used and applied by the particular individual and mean different things to different people. I dont think what where talking about here is a seriously modified car with a blower sticking out the hood or obviously wrong coil etc. Were talking about cars that are restored and those restored to "as close" condition as it would have come off the line. However, just about all cars now can technically be called modified if one wanted to narrow it down enough. Whether the car has "flat unfolded" carpet or not it's still not original unless it was NOS. I mean who wants everything original anyway. I suppose everything has it's place but for me I would rather have a new correctly restored Ebody dash pad made with better materials than the old original junk which faded and cracked. Techology is much better now. We have better materials, better techniques, etc. So whether it is restored or modified is really how narrow you apply the definitions. As for the poster, value is always going to be up to the particular person looking to buy an item. Value generally is what the average person would be willing to pay for something. With that in mind is there really value is paint drips, unfolded carpets, overspray, and paint dabs? Not sure. One could argue that to correctly repeat those processes correctly is time consuming and therefore time= equals money. But then on the other hand, better paint jobs,no overspray, improved materials, and better products might appeal to someone else. It is all in the eye of the beholder. I prefer to straddle the line a bit. I would like my convertible to better than it came from the factory, with paint dabs, the correct appearing stickers/labels, maybe even "better fitting flat carpet", but not so far as to reproduce the overspray and drips. That's just not my thing. So in the end, no one can really tell you what is more valuable. Some of these high dollar guys will try to convince you that YOURs is not as valuable as theirs because you don't have the appropriate drip marks but I think that is more of someone trying to feel good about themselves. But with all fairness I can say this. A concourse OE restoration will not devalue your car, but that cannot always be said for every restoration. It is kind of like finishing a basement. The appraisers have to value it based on averages on what everyone does. Some basements are great and some remodeled basements are awful. Thus everyones average perceived apprasial values suffer. In the end, do what you like that is where the real value lies. 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: moparmojo]
#639691
03/16/10 11:26 PM
03/16/10 11:26 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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Quote:
seriously modified car with a blower sticking out the hood or obviously wrong coil etc. Were talking about cars that are restored and those restored to "as close" condition as it would have come off the line......Whether the car has "flat unfolded" carpet or not it's still not original unless it was NOS.
Wow! This really can't be that difficult to understand....can it?! Exactly what does "seriously modified" actually mean? Is it similar to being a little bit or lot-ta bit pregnant? The definition of "Restore" is definitive, not relative to the subject matter! It is what it is!!! People choose to compromise and dilute it's meaning to facilitate their particular agenda.
And concerning your remark about, "flat unfolded" carpet or not it's still not original".... Did we just change trains of thought again? Restoring something has nothing to do with it's "originality".
To answer your question, "I mean who wants everything original anyway." That is very easy to answer! Anyone who still wants it original.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639692
03/17/10 12:19 AM
03/17/10 12:19 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
seriously modified car with a blower sticking out the hood or obviously wrong coil etc. Were talking about cars that are restored and those restored to "as close" condition as it would have come off the line......Whether the car has "flat unfolded" carpet or not it's still not original unless it was NOS.
Wow! This really can't be that difficult to understand....can it?! Exactly what does "seriously modified" actually mean? Is it similar to being a little bit or lot-ta bit pregnant? The definition of "Restore" is definitive, not relative to the subject matter! It is what it is!!! People choose to compromise and dilute it's meaning to facilitate their particular agenda.
And concerning your remark about, "flat unfolded" carpet or not it's still not original".... Did we just change trains of thought again? Restoring something has nothing to do with it's "originality".
To answer your question, "I mean who wants everything original anyway." That is very easy to answer! Anyone who still wants it original.
I think there are too many things being discussed In this thread and is way off track from the original post. However I don't think anyone has a problem understanding the difference between a modified car and an original car.
Your freaking out over an absolute definition here. I get it, others get it, but I just don't think most of us really care about the exact absolute definition. A totally original car with tires, belts, and hoses is not safe to drive and is very impractical for anything other than viewing. Is this what the vast majority of us want? i don't think so.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639693
03/17/10 01:56 AM
03/17/10 01:56 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Your freaking out over an absolute definition here.....I just don't think most of us really care about the exact absolute definition. A totally original car ....
What definition do you assume I have "freaked" out over Darryl? You guys can't seem to understand the difference between the words "restore" and "original". You STILL confused the two in your response to my last post! First of all, a car can be restored using 100% reproduction parts. That doesn't mean that it is still considered to be original! Why is it so hard to understand the difference between the two? You obviously believe that it is insignificant to use these words according to their literal definitions. If I have one minuscule variation in any of my products (from the original examples) I guarantee you that I will hear about it. They are accurate reproductions but we never say they are original. They are original IN APPEARANCE. I spend every minuet of the day trying to make sure that our products exhibit the very details that you deem as insignificant and trivial! There are MANY people who have been slighted and cheated when they show their cars in "Restored" classes. Is it fair to have cars compete in a "factory restored class" when some cars adhere to strict exacting details and others are allowed certain minimum modifications? Separate them and put them in a different class! We have now come full circle. (Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.)
This reminds me of a story about a Policeman who pulled a Motorist over for slowly rolling through a STOP sign instead of coming to a complete halt. The Motorist became frustrated and asked the officer, "Whats the big deal?....I slowed down and proceeded cautiously when I saw there were no other cars around!" With that comment the Officer pulled his night stick out and the Motorist became very nervous. The Motorist asked, "What are you planning to do with your night stick?" The Policeman replied, "I want to help you understand the difference between the words STOP and SLOW. As I start to beat you with my night stick, I want you to tell me to either SLOW down or STOP!"
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639694
03/17/10 02:04 AM
03/17/10 02:04 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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As I said, I don't think anyone has a problem understanding the difference between a modified car and an original car. I just really don't care about what your ranting about. 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639695
03/17/10 02:08 AM
03/17/10 02:08 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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I just really don't care about what your ranting about.
So did we just switch topics of discussion again? 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: domingo]
#639697
03/17/10 06:21 PM
03/17/10 06:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
smac77
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 417
Caledon, Ontario
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Quote:
Hi guys!
I have a few rare cars that I will be restoring in the following years.
Cars such as an original all numbers matching 69 HEMI Charger, a 4406 pack shaker Challenger 4 speed plum crazy, a Lemon twist 71 cuda 440-6 4 speed BB go wing car, a couple 71 cuda verts, a TA Challenger, etc.
I nam really torn in between going after
A) an OEM correct resto on all of them (with primered underbodies with overspray, bare metal surfaces, paint drips, etc), OEM steel exhaust systems, steel brake lines, etc.
B) an over restored look with paint as nice as the outside on the undeside as well, inner body panels, 3 stage paint all over. Detailed components,upgrade to stainless steel fuel and brake lines that are exact in appereance and function to the originals but polished stainless to keep them loking great forever, etc.
Problem is I do want to drive this cars some (I will care for them and only drive em occassionaly, but stillwant to enjoy them) and also I want them to keep looking nice, clean and fresh for as long as possible...something that cant be possible if shoting for an OEM resto where unpainted surfaces and primered undercarriages are bound to deteriorate QUICKLY if the cars arent treated like a full time trailer queen.
Problem is I might not keep them all ( I bought too many). I want to restore them all and sell some when the oportunity arises or after I decide which to keep and which not. But that may take a while and I do want to be able to recoup or make it as profitable as it could be when I sell...
So, do you think if I over restore the cars I might HURT their resale vale later on, or if they are done tastefully and extremely nice it should not matter much really even if they are not 100% OEM correct but made a little "better than new"?
Please not I would not use aftermarket parts, or cobble up stuff thats not supposed to be there from the factory. Im just talking about coating the whole body inn 2 stage urethane paint. Painting driveshafts and steering and suspension compoenents that are supposed to be bare metal, making the complete exhaust systems including the tips and mufflers in stainless steel resembling the originals in construction completely, stainless steel brake and fuel lines, etc.
To get back to the original question... I don't think you'll find any difference in re-sale value between a nice OE type restoration and a "better than factory" built car. The only guys who aren't going to like the fully painted undercarriage are the die hard purists, and you wouldn't want to sell a car to them anyways, they are a pain in the a$$........ just kidding guys
Restoration, Sales and Canadian Distributor For: AMD Sheetmetal Wizzard Direct Fit, Bolt In Aluminum Radiators Legendary Interiors SSBC & Wilwood Brakes Control Freak Suspensions Fine lines Tubing and many more... www.macleanclassics.com
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: smac77]
#639698
03/17/10 07:16 PM
03/17/10 07:16 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Manhattan, IL
SixPackRT
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 408
Manhattan, IL
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I think everyone in this forum has there own favorites as far as oem, over restored, modified, or whatever you want to call them. But as much as I commend the people that go the oem route, I think they are under appreciated the minute they leave the judging field. I think there works of art, but most purchasers don't look at the level of detail or appreciate the work that is involved during the restoring process, unless they done it themselves. Thats why in my opinion the cars with nice paint that yeah might be modified from the original and over restored  but catch everyones eyes are the cars that bring the most when it comes time to sell. But my thoughts are if you enter into any restoration type trying to figure out what someone else is going to like your doomed from the start Scott
70 Coronet RT 440+6
64 Dodge 330 - Future Hemi Clone
17 Challenger Hellcat - Green Go Driver
86 Buick T-Type Turbo V-6
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#639700
03/17/10 08:34 PM
03/17/10 08:34 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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feel superior
Hey....its my good old buddy from way back when! Maybe your lack of self esteem (or identity) is what causes you to feel I that am somehow "superior." I am just a RegularCarGuy! Nothing special with or about me! You might try to at least mask your personal insecurities rather than expose them with opinions on how others must feel! Good to hear from you!!!! I hope you have been doing fantastic!!! What a WONDERFUL Surprise!!!!  
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639702
03/17/10 08:41 PM
03/17/10 08:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
Paul Jacobs
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,039
INDIANA
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I want the last word, so here it is:ZYZZYVA the last word in the dictionary is zyzzyva. It is a South American weevil that infects plants. Of course some will say it's ZZZ-to sleep...or where this thread should go  What were talking about again??
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639703
03/17/10 08:56 PM
03/17/10 08:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,219
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,219
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Quote:
feel superior
Hey....its my good old buddy from way back when! Maybe your lack of self esteem (or identity) is what causes you to feel I that am somehow "superior." I am just a RegularCarGuy! Nothing special with or about me! You might try to at least mask your personal insecurities rather than expose them with opinions on how others must feel! Good to hear from you!!!! I hope you have been doing fantastic!!! What a WONDERFUL Surprise!!!!
Good to see you back looking for something to hold over others. Board wasn't the same w/o you
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