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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639644
03/15/10 12:48 PM
03/15/10 12:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
Troy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,957
West Coast, CA
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(....I'm looking for the beating a dead horse icon but I can't find it...)
With all that being said I think I have an answer for you. I live very close to some restorations shops and the norm today is for cars that will be sold is a nice restoration......using many repop parts....gray, painted undercarriages, keeping overspray to an minimum. Keeping the cost low so the profits are high. NOS parts cost a lot of money....repop parts are not original but costs a lot less. Once a NOS part is installed, it's no longer a NOS part so what's the point???
The 2%ers will NEVER get all the money out of the cars that they put into it. There even worse off if they paid somebody else to do the work. The market is just not there today.
There is one shop here that has got this down to a science. He makes the paint real nice....powder coats many of the parts for longevity, applies many of the inspection marks....he make the cars look good and sorry to say, that is where the money is AND you can drive the daylights out of it.
....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639645
03/15/10 12:56 PM
03/15/10 12:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree on your point of view. But I would not call a car with a fully painted ubibody underside and components that are supposed to be bare iron or steel painted to appear correct but avoid corrossion a "modified" car.
It is not my point of view! I quoted the definition of each descriptive EXACTLY as they were taken from the dictionary. Whether you choose to accept or ignore that fact does not change reality one bit. If it is not restored to original specifications then it is modified. Plain and simple! Trying to decide which method will bring more money is like debating which color is prettier....Red or Blue? Facts are Facts and opinions are opinions. Do what you want and hopefully it will appeal to a buyer that has similar taste. As soon as you make a move either way, someone will always take the other side and come back with the typical, "Yeah but what about..... ".
Besides....people can't even convey a 100% non-opinionated FACT without someone responding with a contradicting phrase such as:
"But I would not call a car with a fully painted ubibody underside and components that are supposed to be bare iron or steel painted to appear correct but avoid corrossion a "modified" car."
Like it or not, if it didn't originally come like that from the factory then it has been Modified!!
Restore: Return to its original or usable and functioning condition.
Modification: Alteration - the act of making something different.
I think its a bit too generic to put the so called "over-restored" cars into the same bag as the a "modified" car with 20" wheels,a viper drivetrain and a custom interior with a monster tach atop the dashboard.
Thats what there are also cars called "day 2 modified" which have era correct aftermarket modifications like ET II wheels, cable drive aftermarket tach, vintage milodon HEMI valve covers, etc. while everything else is restored to BONE STOCK SPECS...even down to the bare steel driveshaft with a thin coat of oil and heat marks. I would NOT put those in the same bag as a Chip Foose creation.
So, yes, I wont argue. YOU ARE RIGHT. Painted undercarriage, its been modified. Heck...restore it to OEM specs and by that line of thought it has been modified too!!! I dont think yu will be able to find the crrect laquer paint anywhere nowadays. So, a 100% survivor would be the only thing that would be OEM correct. Im not nkocking down the guys who turn out the most AWESOME OEM restos though....it takes a LOT to achieve the level which we have been seeing in recent years...my hats off to all those guys out there!!
But thats why I think its OK to label the different "rebuilds" (lets not call it restorations to initiate another discussion) and just put em in only 2 separate bags.
My persnal opinion and TASTE (not everybody has to agree) is that I would do an absolute correct OEM resto only on cars which will be full time trailer queens. Museum pieces basically, which yes, can be driven, and will get driven, but only in VERY SPECIAL OCCASSIONS. I would not take all my buddies for a spin around the block every time they drop by my shop. For everything else, I will always prefer the over restored route. Its a car that wont stress you out about using!!! Its not the money, its all the effort and time that goes into an OEM restoration. Those cars are mainly for admiring and displaying, not for driving the snot out of them!!!
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: domingo]
#639646
03/15/10 01:05 PM
03/15/10 01:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,636
Nashville, TN
MOPARMIKE69
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,636
Nashville, TN
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"I dont think yu will be able to find the correct laquer paint anywhere nowadays."
None of the car you listed came from the factory with laquer painted exteriors. Specific parts maybe but not the exterior paint.
69 Road Runner vert
69 GTX hard top
70 Road Runner 4 speed
70 Hemi Cuda vert
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: Troy]
#639647
03/15/10 01:11 PM
03/15/10 01:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
(....I'm looking for the beating a dead horse icon but I can't find it...)
With all that being said I think I have an answer for you. I live very close to some restorations shops and the norm today is for cars that will be sold is a nice restoration......using many repop parts....gray, painted undercarriages, keeping overspray to an minimum. Keeping the cost low so the profits are high. NOS parts cost a lot of money....repop parts are not original but costs a lot less. Once a NOS part is installed, it's no longer a NOS part so what's the point???
The 2%ers will NEVER get all the money out of the cars that they put into it. There even worse off if they paid somebody else to do the work. The market is just not there today.
There is one shop here that has got this down to a science. He makes the paint real nice....powder coats many of the parts for longevity, applies many of the inspection marks....he make the cars look good and sorry to say, that is where the money is AND you can drive the daylights out of it.
Im starting to think we have a winner. However, I would only use repro parts when they are really nice repros. Poor fitting or easily visible "off" repros would be ruled out on my cars. I absolutely hate that!!!! How about when you see a cuda with a repro shaker bubble where they never took the time (because they are lazy or they just ingore it) to trim out the extra resin casting flas on the shaker grille openings. Man o man!!! That makes me cringe everytime!!!! Or what about when they use repro quarter panels and they dont trim out the excess lip off them. Or when they install one of those JUNK Challenger rear valances that are way too wide and they just shove em in without modifying them so they fit like OEM and they bow and look like they are sagging. 
You see a lot of cars built like that on ebay. You can clearly see when a car was built to be flipped and just make a buck. Regardless if its an attempt to an OEM resto, or a so called "over-resoration".
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#639648
03/15/10 01:16 PM
03/15/10 01:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
"I dont think yu will be able to find the correct laquer paint anywhere nowadays."
None of the car you listed came from the factory with laquer painted exteriors. Specific parts maybe but not the exterior paint.
OK whatever the original paint was called, you cant get it nowadays. Thats what I was trying to convey.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: Kidsixpack]
#639650
03/15/10 01:41 PM
03/15/10 01:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,426
weymouth,mass.
meepmeep70
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,426
weymouth,mass.
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Quote:
I have yet to meet anyone that has gone for an OE gold rsto. and drives their car. The two don't mix! I restored mine the way the factory would have done it if they took two years to do it. Drivability and durability. 
KID
 i second,i'm happy with the same,just what makes ya happy,i like crusing and hammering it from time to time,not so upsetting when something brakes,then you would have to search for an nos part. good luck
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639652
03/15/10 02:03 PM
03/15/10 02:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
Deuces-Wild
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree on your point of view. But I would not call a car with a fully painted ubibody underside and components that are supposed to be bare iron or steel painted to appear correct but avoid corrossion a "modified" car.
It is not my point of view! I quoted the definition of each descriptive EXACTLY as they were taken from the dictionary. Whether you choose to accept or ignore that fact does not change reality one bit. If it is not restored to original specifications then it is modified. Plain and simple! Trying to decide which method will bring more money is like debating which color is prettier....Red or Blue? Facts are Facts and opinions are opinions. Do what you want and hopefully it will appeal to a buyer that has similar taste. As soon as you make a move either way, someone will always take the other side and come back with the typical, "Yeah but what about..... ".
Besides....people can't even convey a 100% non-opinionated FACT without someone responding with a contradicting phrase such as:
"But I would not call a car with a fully painted ubibody underside and components that are supposed to be bare iron or steel painted to appear correct but avoid corrossion a "modified" car."
Like it or not, if it didn't originally come like that from the factory then it has been Modified!!
Restore: Return to its original or usable and functioning condition.
Modification: Alteration - the act of making something different.
Warning... Following this definition means that you need to use a single stage paint system (acrylic enamel). A clear coat/base coat paint is not original factory specifications....
also, if metallic paint, the suspended flakes in a base/clear will be much more noticeable which can even slightly change the shade.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: domingo]
#639653
03/15/10 02:25 PM
03/15/10 02:25 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I think its a bit too generic to put the so called "over-restored" cars into the same bag as the a "modified" car with 20" wheels,a viper drivetrain and a custom interior with a monster tach atop the dashboard.
I don't recall expressing boundaries or degrees as it relates to being modified. While there are certainly degrees of being modified, just because one level (or extent) exceeds another doesn't take away from the fact that a car is "modified". Calling something "over-restored" is similar to stating that there are "Super Duper Mega-Virgins"! Something is simply "Virgin" or it is not! It is either restored (which means to original specs and appearance) or it is modified. It doesn't change a thing because some misuse or do not understand the definitions that they use on a daily basis. Reality is what it is! 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: Deuces-Wild]
#639654
03/15/10 02:26 PM
03/15/10 02:26 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Warning... Following this definition means that you need to use a single stage paint system (acrylic enamel). A clear coat/base coat paint is not original factory specifications....
also, if metallic paint, the suspended flakes in a base/clear will be much more noticeable which can even slightly change the shade.
Correct!
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: domingo]
#639655
03/15/10 02:34 PM
03/15/10 02:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
Deuces-Wild
member
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member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 69
Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
(....I'm looking for the beating a dead horse icon but I can't find it...)
With all that being said I think I have an answer for you. I live very close to some restorations shops and the norm today is for cars that will be sold is a nice restoration......using many repop parts....gray, painted undercarriages, keeping overspray to an minimum. Keeping the cost low so the profits are high. NOS parts cost a lot of money....repop parts are not original but costs a lot less. Once a NOS part is installed, it's no longer a NOS part so what's the point???
The 2%ers will NEVER get all the money out of the cars that they put into it. There even worse off if they paid somebody else to do the work. The market is just not there today.
There is one shop here that has got this down to a science. He makes the paint real nice....powder coats many of the parts for longevity, applies many of the inspection marks....he make the cars look good and sorry to say, that is where the money is AND you can drive the daylights out of it.
Im starting to think we have a winner. However, I would only use repro parts when they are really nice repros. Poor fitting or easily visible "off" repros would be ruled out on my cars. I absolutely hate that!!!! How about when you see a cuda with a repro shaker bubble where they never took the time (because they are lazy or they just ingore it) to trim out the extra resin casting flas on the shaker grille openings. Man o man!!! That makes me cringe everytime!!!! Or what about when they use repro quarter panels and they dont trim out the excess lip off them. Or when they install one of those JUNK Challenger rear valances that are way too wide and they just shove em in without modifying them so they fit like OEM and they bow and look like they are sagging.
You see a lot of cars built like that on ebay. You can clearly see when a car was built to be flipped and just make a buck. Regardless if its an attempt to an OEM resto, or a so called "over-resoration".
Domingo,
For what its worth, I recently went through a very exhaustive rotissery restoration process. I started out restoring to factory spec but many hours/$$/FRUSTRATIONS later, I changed my game plan to BASF (I didnt make the car just made it better.. and to my liking). You can say I now have a near original factory with 10% overrestore (painted underside) and 10% equip. modify.
IMO, No car is ever a perfect resto and for the ones that are close, owners sweat hoping that one of the few deep pocket individuals will help them get their $$ back out of it.
Lastly, keep in mind that when many folks got their new factory spec cars home, they quickly modified them with "go-faster" engine/suspension modifications... Have fun with it... 
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
#639656
03/15/10 02:46 PM
03/15/10 02:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
domingo
OP
EL Master
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OP
EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,670
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
Quote:
I think its a bit too generic to put the so called "over-restored" cars into the same bag as the a "modified" car with 20" wheels,a viper drivetrain and a custom interior with a monster tach atop the dashboard.
I don't recall expressing boundaries or degrees as it relates to being modified. While there are certainly degrees of being modified, just because one level (or extent) exceeds another doesn't take away from the fact that a car is "modified". Calling something "over-restored" is similar to stating that there are "Super Duper Mega-Virgins"! Something is simply "Virgin" or it is not! It is either restored (which means to original specs and appearance) or it is modified. It doesn't change a thing because some misuse or do not understand the definitions that they use on a daily basis. Reality is what it is!
Ok well, thats a whole different discussion. We are not discussing if the term "over restored" is really worded right for what it refers to. I used the "over restored" term to try to convey what I was thinking because it is generally accepted to use that term on cars that have been generally upgraded for "extra protection", durability, better driveability in some cases, and beauty (of course beauty is on the eye of the beholder). In my case I think watching a concourse resto is impressive and very interesting to look at, and very fun to perform regarding research and execution experimenting with different ways of replicating the factory finishes. It is FUN to REALLY restore stuff. But to me, a nicely detailed and over restored musclecar with perfect paint and no drips oversprays or messy stuff is by far more beautiful. And Im sure the general public (non car buffs) will agree.
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: HPMike]
#639658
03/15/10 03:25 PM
03/15/10 03:25 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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With a 600 HP factory appearing wedge that I built similar to the one I did for Ed Cook's black A12 RR. I didn't want to use the original block, but that was his choice. This one is a litle bit toned down from Ed's so that it can be driven on the street. Run a low 11 second 1/4 @ 125MPH on the redlines. And scare the living hell out of you on the street. I hate it when a nicely restored car barely runs. That is really weak. I had a V code Cuda ragtop at the shop that was done by a prominent resto shop that looked awesome and had great detail, but ran like crap and had several little operational issues. When the guy called the shop on it they told him that the cars they do only get driven on and off the trailer, so they didn't put much effort into those things.  MB
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Re: Over restoring vs.OEM restoration. Resale value.
[Re: HPMike]
#639662
03/15/10 03:47 PM
03/15/10 03:47 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Absolutely Beautiful work Mike. It looks Fantastic!
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