440 Iron Head Question
#635182
03/09/10 09:32 PM
03/09/10 09:32 PM
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western PA
mopar4ya
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Trying to help a friend with a 440 street build and I have a question about factory cylinder heads. Here is what he has. 440 block bored .030 over,stock stroke,with a set of KB237's pistons set at 0 deck height and using a FelPro 8519PT head gasket. He has a set of 516 closed chambered heads with a mild port job he would like to use, and wanted to use the mopar 509 cam. This is going in a 66 Belevedere with a 3000 stall converter, 3:91 gears and plans on mixing fuels. Would he be better of using a different open chamber head milled down, like a 906 that would flow better than the 516's. He wanted the compression set at 11:1, but I didn't know if a open chamber head could be cut this much to get close to the compression he wants. Anyone running this bottom end combo with factory iron heads??? Thanks Dan 
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635183
03/09/10 10:28 PM
03/09/10 10:28 PM
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Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
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I think that would be a good combination with the 516 heads. The 516's have a flatter floor like the 452's but a closed chamber. You will be able to get better quench with the closed chamber. just my  I run a flat top with the closed chamber 915's that are milled to death and only have 12:1 with the piston -.005 in the hole.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#635185
03/10/10 12:34 AM
03/10/10 12:34 AM
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Balt. Md
383man
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I agree with Cab. The only reason I use 906 heads on my 440 is that cash was real tight for me and I do all my own head work as I use my brothers head cutting tools. I cut the seats and installed the 2.14 and 1.81 valves and cut the guides down. I also do my own porting. About the only thing we cant do is mill the heads as he does not have a milling machine. I still had over $400 dollars in my 906 heads by the time I bought new valves , springs and retainers. But I dont pay any labor since I do all my own head work. I do plan to use aluminum heads on my next eng as I want a good head on my next eng that will outflow the ported iron heads. You can figure if you had to pay someone to work on your iron heads you could have over $1000 dollars in them real fast. So you cant go wrong buying a good aluminum head like the Eddy RPM or the Stealth heads. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 03/10/10 12:36 AM.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: 383man]
#635186
03/10/10 07:37 AM
03/10/10 07:37 AM
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mopar4ya
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Buying an aftermarket head is not an option, he doesn't have the money to do that. He has the 516's that had a lite port job done on them, and they have little run time. What I am trying to find out is, should he run what he has or will he gain enough torque by going with another factory iron head to make it worth putting a couple hundred bucks in to. And, with the pistons that are already in the block, will a open chamber head mill down enough to get 10:5 to 11:0 compression. Or, would he make better torque using the mopar 484 cam and using the 516 heads he has? He has not yet bought the cam but wanted to use the 509 because he has people telling him that's what they run. I'm being told his heads will not flow enough to use that cam. Thanks Dan
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: iron6]
#635188
03/10/10 07:36 PM
03/10/10 07:36 PM
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mopar4ya
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 CC on these open chamber heads??? Thanks Dan
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635189
03/10/10 08:03 PM
03/10/10 08:03 PM
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Akron, Ohio U.S.A.
roadhazard
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Well your buddy is going to have to figure what gasket (I'd use a .018-.020 steel shim) and what chamber size is needed to see if and or how much needs to be milled for the 11:1 compression he wants. If he wants to throw a couple hundred bucks into the heads I feel it's worth it for the 516's. If the valve job looks good then maybe he might want to do a little more work to them. Pushrod pinch, more bowl work. If un decided about the cam go with the 484. It's always good to be on the conservative side and have a more responsive motor.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: roadhazard]
#635190
03/10/10 08:25 PM
03/10/10 08:25 PM
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mopar4ya
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Quote:
Well your buddy is going to have to figure what gasket (I'd use a .018-.020 steel shim) and what chamber size is needed to see if and or how much needs to be milled for the 11:1 compression he wants.
If he wants to throw a couple hundred bucks into the heads I feel it's worth it for the 516's. If the valve job looks good then maybe he might want to do a little more work to them. Pushrod pinch, more bowl work.
If un decided about the cam go with the 484. It's always good to be on the conservative side and have a more responsive motor.
Can a open chamber head be cut down to around 78 CC ? or will it be scrap by getting there.
Thanks
Dan.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635191
03/10/10 08:34 PM
03/10/10 08:34 PM
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Between a rock & a hard place
cudadoug
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Quote:
Quote:
Well your buddy is going to have to figure what gasket (I'd use a .018-.020 steel shim) and what chamber size is needed to see if and or how much needs to be milled for the 11:1 compression he wants.
If he wants to throw a couple hundred bucks into the heads I feel it's worth it for the 516's. If the valve job looks good then maybe he might want to do a little more work to them. Pushrod pinch, more bowl work.
If un decided about the cam go with the 484. It's always good to be on the conservative side and have a more responsive motor.
Can a open chamber head be cut down to around 78 CC ? or will it be scrap by getting there.
Thanks
Dan.
Yep, all the time. In fact that's where you need to be to get 11:1...at zero deck with a (NHRA blueprint spec) 79.5 chamber. The stocker guys do it all the time...
back at ya!
By the way, If he hasn't bought a cam yet, there's no reason to use a cam designed 30+ years ago. Get a Comp, Lunati or a custom ground Bullet or something like that...just my
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635192
03/10/10 08:43 PM
03/10/10 08:43 PM
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roadhazard
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Quote:
Can a open chamber head be cut down to around 78 CC ? or will it be scrap by getting there.
Thanks
Dan.
I thought he wanted to use the 516's  Sure you can get an open chamber head to 78cc but unless you have a reverse dome piston the quench area will be large. .045" is good and safe if the deck is straight and the rods are the same length.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: roadhazard]
#635193
03/10/10 09:54 PM
03/10/10 09:54 PM
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mopar4ya
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Roadhazard, he has a set of ported 516's that he was planning on using. He was also thinking of using a mopar 509 cam. I was told by some that the 516's will not flow well enough for that cam. I'm just trying to come up with the best solution using what he already has in the block. If he should go with his 516's or should we rethink this and go with a 906 or other casting for better flow. The KB'S are in the block, set at 0 deck height. That being said,we might be stuck with the 516's because of the quench. Thanks Dan
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635194
03/10/10 11:10 PM
03/10/10 11:10 PM
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roadhazard
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So you will have .039" quench with a 1009 gasket  I assume the 516's have the usual 2.14 & 1.81 valve upgrade. I wouldn't feel "stuck" with the 516's for what you are doing, I'd use them  Greg
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635195
03/11/10 07:16 AM
03/11/10 07:16 AM
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mopar4ya
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Greg, I was planning on using the 8519PT head gaskets that came in the kit, but should still be at about .039. His heads don't have the big valves, they still retain the 2.08's and 1.60's. Thanks Dan.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635196
03/11/10 08:22 AM
03/11/10 08:22 AM
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Columbia, CT
moper
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Will the 516s run? Yes. But witht he small exh valve is really doesnt matter what's been done to them. The air can't get out. So if he wants to run that head, in that shape, I'd run a MUCH better cam. A modern profile with am bit more ont eh exh side to help the small valve. IMO he really needs to have the larger exh valves installed. No seats if he's mixing race gas(leaded). Just a set of stock 1.75 exh valves and a throat cut to hog the bowl a little. The .509 is a good cam. Unfortunately the quality control stinks and the heads you have are terrible on the exh side as cast/equipped.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: ademon]
#635198
03/12/10 03:29 PM
03/12/10 03:29 PM
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Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
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I ran the the 516's on a low compression 383 in a 3400 lb B-body. Low 13's at 105-106 mph. They had the 1.74 exh. valve (284/484 cam, 750 AFB, TM-6). My 60' was poor (1.99) due to chassis issues.
The 516's with the 1.74 exh. valve will flow well for a street/strip motor that won't be spun past 6k rpm's. Just my opinion, but the better quench, compression and intake manifold fitment outweighs the whatever advantage a 906 may or may not have.
Besides, any flow above .500 lift would never be realized with a 484 or 509 cam. And with a B-body a high velocity port that is more efficient will serve you better than a high flow port that won't see it's ultimate usage anyways. Heavy cars with only a 3k converter and street/strip gearing don't need huge ports.
The short side radius of the ports are where those heads need the best attention for flow. Intake port gasket matching and bowl work also are inexpensive if you do it and big gains are in there. I gained 3 mph through the traps with a 3" exhaust system added at the same time.
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: 440 Iron Head Question
[Re: mopar4ya]
#635200
03/12/10 09:17 PM
03/12/10 09:17 PM
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mopar4ya
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Quote:
Greg, I was planning on using the 8519PT head gaskets that came in the kit, but should still be at about .039. His heads don't have the big valves, they still retain the 2.08's and 1.60's.
Thanks
Dan.
Well I got my hands on his 516's today, and was surprised to see they have the 1.74 exhaust valve in them! Looks like were going to mill them down and run them. Maybe at a latter date if he wants more out of the engine, he can upgrade to a better head.
Thanks all!!
Dan
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Your far better off selling the 516 and appling that money towards a good set of alumimun heads like the Eddy RPM