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looks like i killed my nice 440 #627221
02/28/10 06:24 PM
02/28/10 06:24 PM
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Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline OP
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Toronto, Canada
a couple of weeks ago i posted about a knocking sound coming from my motor after firing up and warming it up for about 10 min. i shut it off and haven't checked on it 'till today. first thing i did was check the oil which read EMPTY! drained the oil and maybe 2 quarts came out. pulled off the 727 inspection cover and a valve cover. TC bolts good and no sign of excessive rear main leakage, no galling of the rockers (thank goodness as they are $500 plus comp pro magnums). after pulling the rocker shaft i go to put the assembly in the valve cover and notice what looks like a button stuck to the roof of the VC. the rear plug of the rocker shaft is what it was. i set it down and came inside. last spring i travelled 7 hrs each way to montreal and did some racing there, then just a few short put puts to the store type of thing and fired it in the garage a few times and i always look at the oil pressure to make sure it builds pressure. how could i have lost all that oil? there is a small oil mark under the car but not 5 quarts. there's no way that plug blew out on my way back from mtl. and stayed stuck to the VC is there? my guess is the cold temp shrank the metal and caused a loose fit for the rocker shaft plug. didn't people used to drive 440s in the winter? i'm super bummed out, anyone have this happen before?

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627222
02/28/10 06:35 PM
02/28/10 06:35 PM
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chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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Sounds like the damage is done, so it's coming apart anyway. The engine should still show pressure even with that plug out, but will sure pump alot of oil into that cyl head. Wonder why it wasn't knocking last time you ran it.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: buildanother] #627223
02/28/10 06:42 PM
02/28/10 06:42 PM
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Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline OP
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i'm thinking it must have just happened last time i fired it 'cause the knocking just started then and became louder until i could hear it, then i shut it off. just weird about the low oil level.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627224
02/28/10 06:45 PM
02/28/10 06:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle Offline
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Fix the shaft, change the oil, and give it a shot. Short supply of oil may have brought about the noise. Try to be optomistic.

You could always pull the oil pan, and look things over.


Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen! Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: racealittle] #627225
02/28/10 06:52 PM
02/28/10 06:52 PM
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Northern NJ
StukaJU87 Offline
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Quote:

Fix the shaft, change the oil, and give it a shot. Short supply of oil may have brought about the noise. Try to be optomistic.

You could always pull the oil pan, and look things over.


That's what I'd try first.


Scott

1969 Super Bee, 383/4 speed


Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: racealittle] #627226
02/28/10 06:53 PM
02/28/10 06:53 PM
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Posts: 807
Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline OP
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the plug is very loose in the shaft now, do you think i should order a new shaft from comp or just some new plugs?

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627227
02/28/10 07:04 PM
02/28/10 07:04 PM
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Kevins493 Offline
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If it was me, I'd just put a shaft in, so as not to take any chances. Then either run it and check the filter, or pull the pan and check a few bearings.

Last edited by Kevins493; 02/28/10 07:06 PM.
Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627228
02/28/10 07:42 PM
02/28/10 07:42 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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I'd tap the shaft and put a pipe plug in. Put it together and see what happens.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: Stanton] #627229
02/28/10 08:08 PM
02/28/10 08:08 PM
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Upper Midwest
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Put in a new plug and fire it up. The first thing that you will hear on an oil pressure drop will be the lifter rattle. Even with that plug out of the rocker shaft and with a couple of quarts of oil you would still have a certain amount of oiling to the bottom end.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: MoparforLife] #627230
02/28/10 09:17 PM
02/28/10 09:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 146
florida/ Georgia
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Tom Fox Offline
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put the plug in and try it. the noise you heard was probally the loose plug bouncing around in the valve gear.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: Tom Fox] #627231
02/28/10 09:27 PM
02/28/10 09:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 807
Toronto, Canada
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dirtybee Offline OP
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thanks for all the replies. i'll get a new shaft with plugs from comp and give it a try. i don't feel quite so doomed now, but the knocking i heard was definitely coming from the bottom end, like a rod. guess i'll pull the pan and check out bearings also.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627232
02/28/10 11:35 PM
02/28/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,342
SE PA.
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QuickBpBp Offline
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Quote:

how could i have lost all that oil? there is a small oil mark under the car but not 5 quarts.




My guess is you burned it outta the motor during the ride. It was probably spraying in the baffle and sucking it into the carb through the PCV and goin out the exhaust. That what I would say....

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: QuickBpBp] #627233
03/01/10 08:24 AM
03/01/10 08:24 AM
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Columbia, CT
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moper Offline
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The plug in the rocker shaft is the "end of the line" in terms of oil to the top end. But that oil volume is controlled by the cam and the cam bearings. So while it's not good for that side shaft/rockers, it's not fatal. From the sound of it you burnt it. Why or how needs more info. The fact it's got lower end noises tells me it needs to come apart if for no other reason than to check. I'd pull it just in case.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: moper] #627234
03/01/10 08:56 AM
03/01/10 08:56 AM
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Posts: 15,489
the boonies
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Quote:

The plug in the rocker shaft is the "end of the line" in terms of oil to the top end. But that oil volume is controlled by the cam and the cam bearings. So while it's not good for that side shaft/rockers, it's not fatal. From the sound of it you burnt it. Why or how needs more info. The fact it's got lower end noises tells me it needs to come apart if for no other reason than to check. I'd pull it just in case.




It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas.
Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: moper] #627235
03/01/10 09:41 AM
03/01/10 09:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

The plug in the rocker shaft is the "end of the line" in terms of oil to the top end. But that oil volume is controlled by the cam and the cam bearings. So while it's not good for that side shaft/rockers, it's not fatal. From the sound of it you burnt it. Why or how needs more info. The fact it's got lower end noises tells me it needs to come apart if for no other reason than to check. I'd pull it just in case.


I agree with you on this when he says that the noise is definitely in the bottom.

Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: dirtybee] #627236
03/01/10 06:03 PM
03/01/10 06:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Fury Fan Offline
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He said he drove 14 hrs road trip, some racing, and some short trips around home.

14 hrs @ 70 mph is 980 miles. If you burned 5 quarts in 1000-1200 miles you would see it in your rearview mirror, I think. That's not a solution to the problem, just an observation on oil usage.

If you didn't hear it knocking until you warmed it up that day, change the oil first, see what happens, and if OK drive it for awhile and keep an eye on it. Maybe take an oil sample someplace for a 1-shot analysis???

Don't pull the engine unless you have to, 'cuz by Moparts rules you then have to put a stroker crank in... :


Parts I seek: driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set 16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better. 69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields Send a PM.
Re: looks like i killed my nice 440 [Re: Fury Fan] #627237
03/01/10 06:24 PM
03/01/10 06:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 587
San Clemente, ca
enelson Offline
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I'd imagine if all that oil went through the motor you'd have some unburned oily nastyness on the back of the car also.... If it was leaking out somewhere in transit you probably would as well.

Good luck hope it all works out ok...


Quote:

He said he drove 14 hrs road trip, some racing, and some short trips around home.

14 hrs @ 70 mph is 980 miles. If you burned 5 quarts in 1000-1200 miles you would see it in your rearview mirror, I think. That's not a solution to the problem, just an observation on oil usage.

If you didn't hear it knocking until you warmed it up that day, change the oil first, see what happens, and if OK drive it for awhile and keep an eye on it. Maybe take an oil sample someplace for a 1-shot analysis???

Don't pull the engine unless you have to, 'cuz by Moparts rules you then have to put a stroker crank in... :









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