Quote:

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The perfect example of less displacement and more horse power.

From Dick Maxwell:

Any 170 cu. in. slant six having a small BBS carburetor (1-1/4" dia. venturi) will produce about 5% more power when the 225 cu. in. BBS carburetor (1-11/32" dia. venturi) is installed. These two carburetors can be identified by measuring their throttle bore diameter. The larger carburetor has a 1-11/16" dia. throttle bore and the smaller carburetor has a 1-9/16" dia. throttle bore. All 170 manual transmission jobs and the 1960 and 1961 170 with automatic transmission have the smaller carburetor.
2. Two Barrels
a. Two Barrel Conversion Available from MoPar
A two barrel set up (as used on the 225 cu. in. marine engine) is available from MoPar as follows:
1 - 2463849 carburetor
1 - E8467 manifold
1 - 2465310 air cleaner

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Dick is not saying the 170 will make 5% more power than the 225, he is saying the 170 will make 5% more power with the bigger carb from a 225 than it did with it's original carb.

If the 170 makes more power than the 225 witch we already established is the most powerfull engine ever then mabey we should all swap out Hemis for the rare and elusive monster 170 slant 6 the no car on earth could ever touch us

Quote:

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Quote:

---

The perfect example of less displacement and more horse power.

From Dick Maxwell:

Any 170 cu. in. slant six having a small BBS carburetor (1-1/4" dia. venturi) will produce about 5% more power when the 225 cu. in. BBS carburetor (1-11/32" dia. venturi) is installed. These two carburetors can be identified by measuring their throttle bore diameter. The larger carburetor has a 1-11/16" dia. throttle bore and the smaller carburetor has a 1-9/16" dia. throttle bore. All 170 manual transmission jobs and the 1960 and 1961 170 with automatic transmission have the smaller carburetor.
2. Two Barrels
a. Two Barrel Conversion Available from MoPar
A two barrel set up (as used on the 225 cu. in. marine engine) is available from MoPar as follows:
1 - 2463849 carburetor
1 - E8467 manifold
1 - 2465310 air cleaner

---

Dick is not saying the 170 will make 5% more power than the 225, he is saying the 170 will make 5% more power with the bigger carb from a 225 than it did with it's original carb.

If the 170 makes more power than the 225 witch we already established is the most powerfull engine ever then mabey we should all swap out Hemis for the rare and elusive monster 170 slant 6 the no car on earth could ever touch us

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So does that equate that a 413 will make 5% more HP than a 440 using the 440 carb ?

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As it was said before, 440's will have the upstair
power due to it larger bore. things will will be tight between them at low and midrange.

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Still wrong on all counts. The 440 will crush it with low RPM tq due to the cubic inches and it will smash it on top end because of the ability to flow more air with a bigger bore and less shrouded valves. The low RPM TQ is a direct derivitive of the cubic inches and the 440 will kill an equally equipped 413.

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um WRONG. small bores BIG strokes.. thats what wins in a killer street engine. being of EQUAL cubic inches mind you.

JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE:
TOP FUEL ENGINES:

4.1875" bore x 4.500" stroke

remember kids.. just an example.. i know that isn't a street engine and its supercharged, but
yet they choose to make the engine that way.

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Following YOUR logic... If the smallest bores and longest stroke makes the most TQ and TQ wins races then how the hell come we don't all run 225 slant six's and slaughter the competition? Bet you didn't know the 225 had the longest stroke of almost ANY engine put in a car since about 1960 and one of the smallest bores of the muscle car era, the smallest bore and the longest stroke, and to further make it the king it has the smallest valves and ports of any mopar motor from the muscle era... it should even kill the mighty Hemi any day of the week ! Heck if only the 18 wheelers knew of the 225 they could save all that money on 1000 cube catapiller diesels they run. The fact is your logic is completly wrong, the 440 will make more TQ because it has more DISPLACEMENT. No one ever said a 413 is slow so you need to quit repeating it, re-read the post genious. The only things people have said about it are it will make less TQ than an equally built 440 and pistons are expensive customs or expensive lo-po replacement pistons and you could buy a 440 and build it cheaper and make more TQ doing it. Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

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Dave, I think the BUICK CAMP disagrees VERY
LOUDLY. (My apologies to my MOPAR brothers).
SAME BORE, longer rod?, LONGER STROKE. EXPLAIN
TO ME WHY 440's Have a hard time, with the GS's
and Skylarks, or even a some 2-door ELECTRA 225's
built to run deep 10's, legal and driven on the
street regularly. Dave, your problem is that you
are scared to 'run the opposition" cause your
combo isn't sound. Or, is it that you have spent money in it and "think" that it is the ULTIMATE.
I am waiting for the day when some person (man or
woman), shuts your combo down. They problably will
have done their "homework" on their combo and spent "less" than you. They may have checked over
and over, the balance, clearances, parts compliment (intake, carb(s), cam, compression,
exhaust, gears/tranny and suspension) and most important vehicle weight. Not rocket science, just
plain ol' hot rod innovation. Enhance what the factory gave you, improve the weak points and
exploit the strong. You so caught up in your
rhetoric, you may get beaten by a MAX BORE, HI
RPM 400 Mill in a 2800- 3000lb chassis that is street legal. I do know a few. AND they are not
"HIGH DOLLAR" combo's either. Read: non stroker.
One favor though watch who are calling the "post
genius". I try to help those who seek knowledge
"without engine discrimintion". You, always been
the self-rightous proclamed 440 GURU read "THE
UNBEATABLE", do not respect the opinions of the
other member of this post. Offer a little
constructive criticism some time, open your ears
and maybe, just maybe you WILL realize the 440
isn't the ONLY GAME IN TOWN!! It is a GOOD mill
but not THE MILL.

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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The perfect example of less displacement and more horse power.

From Dick Maxwell:

Any 170 cu. in. slant six having a small BBS carburetor (1-1/4" dia. venturi) will produce about 5% more power when the 225 cu. in. BBS carburetor (1-11/32" dia. venturi) is installed. These two carburetors can be identified by measuring their throttle bore diameter. The larger carburetor has a 1-11/16" dia. throttle bore and the smaller carburetor has a 1-9/16" dia. throttle bore. All 170 manual transmission jobs and the 1960 and 1961 170 with automatic transmission have the smaller carburetor.
2. Two Barrels
a. Two Barrel Conversion Available from MoPar
A two barrel set up (as used on the 225 cu. in. marine engine) is available from MoPar as follows:
1 - 2463849 carburetor
1 - E8467 manifold
1 - 2465310 air cleaner

---

Dick is not saying the 170 will make 5% more power than the 225, he is saying the 170 will make 5% more power with the bigger carb from a 225 than it did with it's original carb.

If the 170 makes more power than the 225 witch we already established is the most powerfull engine ever then mabey we should all swap out Hemis for the rare and elusive monster 170 slant 6 the no car on earth could ever touch us

---

So does that equate that a 413 will make 5% more HP than a 440 using the 440 carb ?

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Nice touch 62'

Quote:

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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.
Who makes the thickest sleeves?

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and the self proclaimed gurus crack me up as well.
prove me wrong. if you think you get the same hosrepower from a 4.32" x 3.75" vs 4.18" x 4.00" bore and stroke 440 cid engine your sadly mistaken my friend.

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As it was said before, 440's will have the upstair
power due to it larger bore. things will will be tight between them at low and midrange.

---

Still wrong on all counts. The 440 will crush it with low RPM tq due to the cubic inches and it will smash it on top end because of the ability to flow more air with a bigger bore and less shrouded valves. The low RPM TQ is a direct derivitive of the cubic inches and the 440 will kill an equally equipped 413.

---

um WRONG. small bores BIG strokes.. thats what wins in a killer street engine. being of EQUAL cubic inches mind you.

JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE:
TOP FUEL ENGINES:

4.1875" bore x 4.500" stroke

remember kids.. just an example.. i know that isn't a street engine and its supercharged, but
yet they choose to make the engine that way.

---

Following YOUR logic... If the smallest bores and longest stroke makes the most TQ and TQ wins races then how the hell come we don't all run 225 slant six's and slaughter the competition? Bet you didn't know the 225 had the longest stroke of almost ANY engine put in a car since about 1960 and one of the smallest bores of the muscle car era, the smallest bore and the longest stroke, and to further make it the king it has the smallest valves and ports of any mopar motor from the muscle era... it should even kill the mighty Hemi any day of the week ! Heck if only the 18 wheelers knew of the 225 they could save all that money on 1000 cube catapiller diesels they run. The fact is your logic is completly wrong, the 440 will make more TQ because it has more DISPLACEMENT. No one ever said a 413 is slow so you need to quit repeating it, re-read the post genious. The only things people have said about it are it will make less TQ than an equally built 440 and pistons are expensive customs or expensive lo-po replacement pistons and you could buy a 440 and build it cheaper and make more TQ doing it. Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

---

Dave, I think the BUICK CAMP disagrees VERY
LOUDLY. (My apologies to my MOPAR brothers).
SAME BORE, longer rod?, LONGER STROKE. EXPLAIN
TO ME WHY 440's Have a hard time, with the GS's
and Skylarks, or even a some 2-door ELECTRA 225's
built to run deep 10's, legal and driven on the
street regularly. Dave, your problem is that you
are scared to 'run the opposition" cause your
combo isn't sound. Or, is it that you have spent money in it and "think" that it is the ULTIMATE.
I am waiting for the day when some person (man or
woman), shuts your combo down. They problably will
have done their "homework" on their combo and spent "less" than you. They may have checked over
and over, the balance, clearances, parts compliment (intake, carb(s), cam, compression,
exhaust, gears/tranny and suspension) and most important vehicle weight. Not rocket science, just
plain ol' hot rod innovation. Enhance what the factory gave you, improve the weak points and
exploit the strong. You so caught up in your
rhetoric, you may get beaten by a MAX BORE, HI
RPM 400 Mill in a 2800- 3000lb chassis that is street legal. I do know a few. AND they are not
"HIGH DOLLAR" combo's either. Read: non stroker.
One favor though watch who are calling the "post
genius". I try to help those who seek knowledge
"without engine discrimintion". You, always been
the self-rightous proclamed 440 GURU read "THE
UNBEATABLE", do not respect the opinions of the
other member of this post. Offer a little
constructive criticism some time, open your ears
and maybe, just maybe you WILL realize the 440
isn't the ONLY GAME IN TOWN!! It is a GOOD mill
but not THE MILL.

---

mind if i toss hotrod a few questions?
becouse his theory on the \6 was brilliant.

ahem...

440 with a 4.32" x 3.75" cylinder VS
a 440 with a 4.18" x 4.00" cylinder (identical builds except for the bore and stroke)

which will make more peak HP?
which will make more average horsepower?
which will make more peak torque?
which will make more Average torque?
which motor will make more VE?

i'm not a mechanic.. i just play one on the internet..

Quote:

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Oh boy! Another 413 food fight! I can talk about motorhome 413's because I've got one and built it nearly 30 years ago. Here's a short list of things I pitched when I got my motor home 413:

Heads got swappped for 440 items.
Intake from Weiand.
Couldn't use the cam or even the cam sprocket because the MH 413 version I had used a gear driven cam that turned backwards.
Rockers and pushrods.
Water pump and housing.
Balancer.
Oil pan.
Distributor and drive gear.
Pistons.
Exhaust manifolds.

Even little nit-noid brackets and bolts didn't fit. In other words, I had to nearly buy a complete 440 just to get the parts to put the MH 413 into a car. And in the end... I had a 413... down on cubes from a 440. So... that's the deal. If I had to do it over again today... I'd go for a stroked 400. Just me.... The OP mentions his 413 is coming out of a car. He's still going to have to upgrade to 440 specs... and... it's still going to be a 413.



Greg

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Nice mill Greg. Too bad you had problems, those
RV mills can some times be trying. Good luck with the 440
man.

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As it was said before, 440's will have the upstair
power due to it larger bore. things will will be tight between them at low and midrange.

---

Still wrong on all counts. The 440 will crush it with low RPM tq due to the cubic inches and it will smash it on top end because of the ability to flow more air with a bigger bore and less shrouded valves. The low RPM TQ is a direct derivitive of the cubic inches and the 440 will kill an equally equipped 413.

---

um WRONG. small bores BIG strokes.. thats what wins in a killer street engine. being of EQUAL cubic inches mind you.

JUST FOR AN EXAMPLE:
TOP FUEL ENGINES:

4.1875" bore x 4.500" stroke

remember kids.. just an example.. i know that isn't a street engine and its supercharged, but
yet they choose to make the engine that way.

---

Following YOUR logic... If the smallest bores and longest stroke makes the most TQ and TQ wins races then how the hell come we don't all run 225 slant six's and slaughter the competition? Bet you didn't know the 225 had the longest stroke of almost ANY engine put in a car since about 1960 and one of the smallest bores of the muscle car era, the smallest bore and the longest stroke, and to further make it the king it has the smallest valves and ports of any mopar motor from the muscle era... it should even kill the mighty Hemi any day of the week ! Heck if only the 18 wheelers knew of the 225 they could save all that money on 1000 cube catapiller diesels they run. The fact is your logic is completly wrong, the 440 will make more TQ because it has more DISPLACEMENT. No one ever said a 413 is slow so you need to quit repeating it, re-read the post genious. The only things people have said about it are it will make less TQ than an equally built 440 and pistons are expensive customs or expensive lo-po replacement pistons and you could buy a 440 and build it cheaper and make more TQ doing it. Stop trying to put words in peoples mouths.

---

Dave, I think the BUICK CAMP disagrees VERY
LOUDLY. (My apologies to my MOPAR brothers).
SAME BORE, longer rod?, LONGER STROKE. EXPLAIN
TO ME WHY 440's Have a hard time, with the GS's
and Skylarks, or even a some 2-door ELECTRA 225's
built to run deep 10's, legal and driven on the
street regularly. Dave, your problem is that you
are scared to 'run the opposition" cause your
combo isn't sound. Or, is it that you have spent money in it and "think" that it is the ULTIMATE.
I am waiting for the day when some person (man or
woman), shuts your combo down. They problably will
have done their "homework" on their combo and spent "less" than you. They may have checked over
and over, the balance, clearances, parts compliment (intake, carb(s), cam, compression,
exhaust, gears/tranny and suspension) and most important vehicle weight. Not rocket science, just
plain ol' hot rod innovation. Enhance what the factory gave you, improve the weak points and
exploit the strong. You so caught up in your
rhetoric, you may get beaten by a MAX BORE, HI
RPM 400 Mill in a 2800- 3000lb chassis that is street legal. I do know a few. AND they are not
"HIGH DOLLAR" combo's either. Read: non stroker.
One favor though watch who are calling the "post
genius". I try to help those who seek knowledge
"without engine discrimintion". You, always been
the self-rightous proclamed 440 GURU read "THE
UNBEATABLE", do not respect the opinions of the
other member of this post. Offer a little
constructive criticism some time, open your ears
and maybe, just maybe you WILL realize the 440
isn't the ONLY GAME IN TOWN!! It is a GOOD mill
but not THE MILL.

---

mind if i toss hotrod a few questions?
becouse his theory on the \6 was brilliant.

ahem...

440 with a 4.32" x 3.75" cylinder VS
a 440 with a 4.18" x 4.00" cylinder (identical builds except for the bore and stroke)

which will make more peak HP?
which will make more average horsepower?
which will make more peak torque?
which will make more Average torque?
which motor will make more VE?

i'm not a mechanic.. i just play one on the internet..

---

Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

Quote:

---

Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

---

those questions where for hotroddave lol. i already know your answers to them question

Quote:

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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.Who makes the thickest sleeves?

---

Just get yourself one of them RB 383s....

Quote:

---

Hey Ghost, I'm not perfect either, nor right
all the time. I gotten some really good posts from you, as well as some other members. Thanks
for the "education without the BIAS", Ghost. Just
remember we are all still "learning" and I'm no
GURU. Hats off to you all.
NOTE: I will try to answer your questions to the
best of my ability.

---

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I can't believe this thread is still alive!

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You wouldn't want something this entertaining to go away would you ?

Quote:

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Quote:

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I'm considering sleeving my 440 to get the bore size down and make some serious power.Who makes the thickest sleeves?

---

Just get yourself one of them RB 383s....

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