Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
#614421
02/16/10 09:44 AM
02/16/10 09:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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I've got all 3 intakes and I need help figuring out which one I should run. I've been running the Air-Gap but I'm wanting to pick up the ETs some. The M1 and Victor 340 are untouched single planes. The best it's ran so far is 11.35 at 118mph with 1.57 60 foot times. Here are the car and drive train specs:
1968 Fastback Barracuda 318 stroker (390cid) K1 4" crank Eagle Rods Ross flat top pistons Edelbrock heads (OOTB) Air-gap dual plane BG 750 silver claw Comp solid cam (.540/.555 252/262 @.050 106 lobe sep) TTI headers 727 Dynamic 9.5” converter 3.91 gears in a 8 ¾ sure grip Cal-tracs, mono leaf, Rancho 9way shocks Cal-tracs 90/10 front shocks Carter mechanical fuel pump full exhaust with Dynomax turbos full interior 3,400lbs race weight ran 11.35 at 118mph shifting at 5,700rpm
This winter I’m: putting a roll bar in pulling out the stock tank and going to a 5 gal fuel cell Aeromotive 2000 fuel pump moving the battery to the trunk moving to a spool 4.30 gears M1 or Victor 340 intake Holley 950 Alcohol carb Going to Alcohol
Hope to be running 10.90s next year.
Any other info needed, just let me know.
Wade Metzinger 918-809-0987 71 Cuda 9.28@145 -1s, Pglide 68 Cuda 10.64@124 1.45 60's 318->390 eddys Moparts discount code on WIX - moparts www.Filter1.com
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#614424
02/16/10 09:56 AM
02/16/10 09:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I would think the airgap, your fairly heavy and dont turn it very high so I would believe the torque would be much better with the airgap.... JMO
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: DaKuda]
#614425
02/16/10 10:05 AM
02/16/10 10:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924
Weddington, N.C.
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Depends on the converter stall/flash as to which one will work better. your weight and gear is right on the cusp. The AG or RPM will make more torque below 4000 hands down but the M1 intake runners flow close to 290 (better than many Big Block single planes!) and the AG flows nowhere close to that....so up top there's no comparison in terms of peak HP potential...if you have the head flow to use its advantage.
I'm going to run both back to back on my little 341 but w/4.56's and 2800lbs I don't need a lot of torque off the line...that said I do prefer the AG's upper bottom so again it really depends on your flash. with 390 cubes I definately think the M1 has more HP potential. I run a 2" hvh super sucker on the M1 and that made a big improvement in throttle response. The AG/RPM responds very well to porting the 4 plenum transitions to each of its 2 runners, there's just not enough cross section there for big top end power as cast.
Edit: Going to alcohol may also be a factor, you'll meter a bit more fuel per HP so remember that the amount of fuel in suspension displaces the amount of total air you can get through the port. A bigger (and straighter) runner can be advantageous in that regard, especially in a long stroke motor that doesn't need a lot of runner length to make torque.
The M1 is basically the old Holley Strip dominator (slightly improved) and is on par with the Victor, the super victor is a step up on big motors with a lot of port or moderate size motors turning big 7800+ rpm.
Last edited by Streetwize; 02/16/10 10:16 AM.
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: Streetwize]
#614426
02/16/10 10:34 AM
02/16/10 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,702 W. Kentucky
justinp61
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,702
W. Kentucky
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I'd run the Victor or the M1 if it were mine. The 340 I had in my 3300# Dart was 11.2-1, ran on pump 93, ported Edelbrocks, hydraulic cam, 237/242 @ .050, .586/.592 lift, 750 Quick Fuel carb on a Weiand X-Celerator. A 727, shift kit, 9.5" converter that flashed 4400, 4.30 geared 8 3/4. It ran a best of 7.24 @ 95.04 (1/8), it went 1.53 60' several times and would run low 7.30s in the heat with 1.56-1.57 60's. It now has a 10.8-1 408, a 260/264 @ .050, .628/.633 lift flat solid, same heads, Victor intake and a Bigs 950HP. The 9.5" converter was set up for the new engine. It's made one clean pass and ran 6.61 @ 102.25 with a 1.41 60', untuned. You're stroker should have plenty of bottom end for the single plane .
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#614427
02/16/10 10:39 AM
02/16/10 10:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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With the winter mods you plan to make, Victor 340 and a 1" open spacer.
Fastest 300
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: WadeMetzinger]
#614428
02/16/10 10:45 AM
02/16/10 10:45 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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One thing is you dont say what your stall is but even with the gear change it would take you up to about 6000 rpm and really thats about what a stock engine would turn.... the only difference is that you will be moving more air... I think if you port the airgap it would be fine.... build for torque and let the HP fall where it may
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: Streetwize]
#614432
02/16/10 03:10 PM
02/16/10 03:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Went from an air gap to a Victor 340 ( with a Wilson 4 hole tapered spacer)with a very similar combo to what you are presently running ( except 408 and much heavier car ) and got positive results shifting at 6200. With the carb and gearing change you propose, I think you will run out of manifold with the air gap - even with OTB heads.
Fastest 300
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: Crizila]
#614433
02/17/10 11:34 AM
02/17/10 11:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073 Tulsa, Ok
WadeMetzinger
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,073
Tulsa, Ok
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We shifted last year at 5,700 with the 3.91 gears but with the 4.30 gears and alcohol I expect to shift around 6,200 - 6,400 RPM.
I can't exactly remember but I think the car stalled around 3,800 - 4,000 last year and with Alcohol it should stall 200 to 300 more.
Does that make some of you that thought the AirGap was the one I should stay with change their minds?
Keep in mind I have all 3, just wondering which I should start with and if I'm happy with the performance I'll stick with it and sell the others.
Just looking at the M1 next to the Victor 340 intakes the M1 looks better, but I don't really know what make one intake better than other so that input isn't even worth .02...lol
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: cudadoug]
#614435
02/17/10 05:57 PM
02/17/10 05:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,487 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,487
SoCal
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The air gap intake will work best with the OOTB heads...hands down. That comes from some of our dyno testing on 4" crank engines. The M1 with porting will make close to the same HP and TQ, but the air gap will do it right OOTB! I would add a 1" spacer and jet up 3 jet sizes (example:from 70 to 73) front and rear.
Brian Hafliger
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: emarine01]
#614437
02/17/10 06:30 PM
02/17/10 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,786
Portage,michigan
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One intake that hasnt been mentioned, is the weiand excellerator, its an excellent torque producing piece. Its a " mild" single plane. My little brother went 11.48 with that intake, stock eddies, on a 360 at a hair under 10 to 1 compression, and he actually has a bigger cam than the combo needs. It still went 1.48 60 foot at 3300 pounds as i recall with low cylinder pressure. I used that same intake a few years back on a mild 416 and later on a 10.70's ish 416. Its a very underappreciated intake that works well at 6000-6500 rpm. In fact i took off a air gap and ran that on my inital mild 416 that went only 11.70's and the car liked it better than the airgap at the track. Just food for thought
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam, footbrake street/strip car Best so far, 10.32 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: B3422W5]
#614438
02/17/10 08:46 PM
02/17/10 08:46 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057
The Great White North
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Only way to know is try the others and then you will know. TRY IT, too difficult to guess at.
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Which SB intake should I run? AirGap, M1 or Victor 340?
[Re: RAMM]
#614439
02/17/10 09:43 PM
02/17/10 09:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,924
Weddington, N.C.
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I've never run the Eddies out of the box but IIRC they flow around 235-ish at .500. You can pick up 15 cfm pretty easy just fixing the VJ, bowl blending and opening up the pushrod pinch....well worth the work for another 20-ish hp and higher peak power RPM IMO. Edelbrock is notorious for tight guides so I do this as a matter of course anyway. If the manifold outflows the intake port by a wide margin (let's say more than 10%) you're never going to realize it's full potential (as Brian I believe eludes to) and often the intake will get blamed for the mis-match. The M1 (strip dominator clone that it is) flows about 285 and is very balanced runner to runner and has decent taper and an agressive approach angle from the Plenum...arguably BETTER in many ways than the Larger Victor. As said the RPM simply doesn't have enough cross section where the four main branches split to its individual runner pairs to make big power upstairs ON a DEEP BREATHER motor, but it probably keeps up with the OOTB eddie just fine. Again on ALCOHOL I'd want a larger straighter runner because you have to push more fuel (bigger jets) through the carb to the valves....Liquid fuel takes up space and alcohol takes more room than Gas (petroleum)...if you think about that that leaves LESS room for the air and you need both to make power. As Wade said torque will improve with the alcohol 9it always has in my experience) so the Perf RPM's upper bottom-mid range advantage is going to be offset by the broader torque curve and the smaller cross sections will very likely choke off the big end power of a 390 incher. A small bore long stroke (3.94 x 4)combo is gonna make torque with any manifold....you could put a torker on an 8:1 455 Olds Vista Cruiser (4.125 x 4.25) and still pull a 32 foot travel trailer! But with the Strip dom/m1 you do have to watch the powerband, especially with an automatic, a high RPM single plane can and will fall out of the 'sweet spot' if you don't have enough flash to cover the wide gear spreads vs a 4 speed. I've never run a victor on a stroker motor but ran a few W2 versions that were like a light switch in terms of powerband...all of it upstairs! Wouldn't fall out of a tree below about 4200 on my old 4 speed car but came on like a nitrous shot above that! Had to keep the revs way up to keep it in the happy zone for sure. But it'd probably work real well on a 416 incher with good heads and 3400+ stall.
Last edited by Streetwize; 02/17/10 09:56 PM.
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