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4 LINK HELP #592537
01/24/10 11:17 AM
01/24/10 11:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
Mopar_racer_99 Offline OP
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Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
We switched over last year to a 4 link and got the 4 link program, and bickles book, the car is 116 inch wb 900+hp with a 50/50 weight distrubtionand a 57.5 center of gavity.The 4 link set at 56.9 and 5.3 it has a 53% anti aquat. If we move the 4 link to 58.8 and 9.4 with a 92.8% antisquat what would the car do plant tires harder softer ? or try to wheel stand , dont know only way to know is try it? thanks guys John


8.72 @ 154.6 ,68 Charger 578ci 440-1s, 3000# w/drvr, 2150 den/alt NA
Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592538
01/24/10 06:55 PM
01/24/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
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BROOK PARK, OH

Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592539
01/24/10 07:34 PM
01/24/10 07:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

We switched over last year to a 4 link and got the 4 link program, and bickles book, the car is 116 inch wb 900+hp with a 50/50 weight distrubtionand a 57.5 center of gavity.The 4 link set at 56.9 and 5.3 it has a 53% anti aquat. If we move the 4 link to 58.8 and 9.4 with a 92.8% antisquat what would the car do plant tires harder softer ? or try to wheel stand , dont know only way to know is try it? thanks guys John




I'm sure the 57.5 is the fore and aft balance point
but you didnt state what height is for the CG... if
you go forward of the CG it will tend to stand up
but it also will depend on where the CG really is.
Higher up will hit the tire harder but for a lesser
period of time... lower is softer but for a longer
period of time... I believe if you raise the IC, you
are pushing forward at a higher point so that should
help keep it down
As a rule of thumb you can use the cam shaft height
as the height for the CG

Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592540
01/24/10 09:20 PM
01/24/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 83
Southern IL.
J
jafr Offline
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J

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 83
Southern IL.
Your setup sounds about right for a starting point. Why are you wanting to change the bar setting? What is the car doing or not doing?
If you move the IC up and back it will hit the tire harder but it will also tend to wheel stand.
I would not put the IC 9.5" high with the kind of power you are making the car will be very loose down track.
You have a good book full of information and a good 4-link program make sure your measurements are precise when you input the information.

Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: jafr] #592541
01/24/10 10:00 PM
01/24/10 10:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
Mopar_racer_99 Offline OP
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Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
Right now we are looking to improve 60' what look slugish at 1.29-1.32. the cam height is one thing we keep forgetting to measure but should be around 20 inches at the most.John


8.72 @ 154.6 ,68 Charger 578ci 440-1s, 3000# w/drvr, 2150 den/alt NA
Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592542
01/24/10 10:20 PM
01/24/10 10:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

Right now we are looking to improve 60' what look slugish at 1.29-1.32. the cam height is one thing we keep forgetting to measure but should be around 20 inches at the most.John




When you go up on the IC it will plant the tire harder,
with the 1.30 60" is that spinning the tire, have you
taken any video of your launch

Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #592543
01/24/10 10:55 PM
01/24/10 10:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
Mopar_racer_99 Offline OP
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Woodstock , Georgia
video is not great looking but can see 1 rev or more on tire on hit. John


8.72 @ 154.6 ,68 Charger 578ci 440-1s, 3000# w/drvr, 2150 den/alt NA
Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592544
01/24/10 11:00 PM
01/24/10 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Quote:

video is not great looking but can see 1 rev or more on tire on hit. John




You want the tire to turn some to get up on the tire...
does your car transfer the weight from the front.
My tire turns some also but I get a 1.19 - 1.20 60',
mines lighter but you have a ton more power

Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: MR_P_BODY] #592545
01/25/10 06:02 PM
01/25/10 06:02 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 976
Woodstock , Georgia
Mopar_racer_99 Offline OP
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Posts: 976
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what we can see maybe 1 inch driver side none passenger side on front lift, back squats down. John


8.72 @ 154.6 ,68 Charger 578ci 440-1s, 3000# w/drvr, 2150 den/alt NA
Re: 4 LINK HELP [Re: Mopar_racer_99] #592546
01/25/10 10:09 PM
01/25/10 10:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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MR_P_BODY  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
Here's some stuff on 4-links for you to read


Four Link, Instant Center & AntiSquat
The goal in setting up a suspension is to apply just enough force to the tires to keep them from spinning and let the rest of the force push the car forward.
Draw an imaginary line through the lower control arm forward. Now draw an imaginary line through the upper control arm forward until it intersects the lower line. This intersection is called the Instant Center (IC).

Now imagine the Center of Gravity (CG) of your car concentrated at the shifter handle. Where the IC (Instant Center) is located compared to the CG (Center of Gravity) is what determines how the force of the suspension acts on the car to get it moving. If the IC is too high then there will be too much energy wasted pushing the car skyward. If the IC is too low then there won't be enough force applied to the rear tires and the tires will spin. There are also variables if the IC is in front of the CG or behind the CG. Somewhere there is going to be a position (or more than one) that will apply just enough force to the tires to keep them from spinning and the rest of the force will push the car forward.

While the car is sitting still, the tires have 100% traction. During the launch you don't want to change this. Properly adjusting the IC will maintain the existing traction during the initial launch or Tire Shock. The IC starts working during the first .001 second of the launch and continues for the next 30 feet or so. However, after the first .001 seconds the shocks are playing a very important roll in "maintaining" the traction and allowing the IC to apply the desired force to the tires. For the most part, the IC is what is adjusted to get the initial hook and the shocks should be adjusted to maintain the traction throughout the 60'.

The four control arms on a four link type suspension, when adjusted correctly for a particular car, can help launch a car quicker and use less horsepower doing it. Compared to a ladder bar suspension a 4 link suspension has the added benifit of changing the length of the Instant Center to accomodate more or less front end lift without adding any more Anti Squat.
Definitions:
Anti Squat (AS):
This is a term used to describe how much the rear of the car will Rise or Squat during launch. If a chassis has 160% of AS then the rear will rise drastically, planting the tires violently. By comparison if a chassis has 100% AS then the rear of the car will not rise or squat and if a chassis has less than 100% the rear of the car will squat.
~A common problem with high horsepower cars running Too Much AS is that the tires will plant the tires very hard for the first several feet but then start to unload the tires and spin when the chassis starts to settle. If your car does this, then look into the value of the AS. Much too often racers will detune the engine to "calm down" the launch instead of look into the suspension geometry.
~A common problem with high horsepower cars running Too Little AS is that the suspension will cause the rear of the car to squat which tries to unload the tires. Again racers detune the engine to maintain traction instead of looking into the suspension geometry.

Normal/Neutral Line:
1. Draw a line up through the center of your front wheel.
2. Draw a Horizontal line through the CG until it crosses the line drawn through your front wheel and mark this intersection point. The Normal Line (or Neutral Line) is the line drawn from the Rear Tire contact patch through this intersection. Neutral Line

The location of the IC relative to the CG and the Normal Line (or Neutral line) is what determines what the chassis is going to do. One term used to describe the chassis movement for a 4 link suspension is Anti Squat. An IC that is located ABOVE the Normal Line is said to have more than 100% Anti-Squat. An IC located BELOW the Normal Line is said to have less than 100% Anti Squat.

~4-link settings of 100% Anti Squat should accelerate the car w/o any raising or squatting of the rear of the car.
~4-link settings with MORE than 100% Anti Squat will Raise the rear end and hit the tires HARDER.
~4-link settings with LESS than 100% Anti Squat will cause the rear end to Squat and hit the tires SOFTER.

~IC's that are located IN FRONT of the Center of Gravity (CG) will tend to lift the NOSE of the car.
~IC's that are located BEHIND the Center of Gravity (CG) will tend to lift the REAR of the car.







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