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1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? #589819
01/21/10 10:59 AM
01/21/10 10:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 625
Florida-West Coast
Thor500 Offline OP
mopar
Thor500  Offline OP
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Florida-West Coast
Is the 1/2" oil pick-up mod of any great benefit to a bracket motor that will likely never see Rpm's above 6000?

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589820
01/21/10 12:35 PM
01/21/10 12:35 PM
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State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Opinions vary....mine says no.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589821
01/21/10 12:45 PM
01/21/10 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
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May not big a big benefit but it is a benefit. Take a thick milkshake, use a big straw and a little straw, which one is easiest? Oil pump has to do the same thing.


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: 23T Hemmee] #589822
01/21/10 12:51 PM
01/21/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 625
Florida-West Coast
Thor500 Offline OP
mopar
Thor500  Offline OP
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Quote:

May not big a big benefit but it is a benefit. Take a thick milkshake, use a big straw and a little straw, which one is easiest? Oil pump has to do the same thing.




But if your milkshake straw is big on the bottom and small on the top then no benefit is what I'm understanding?

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589823
01/21/10 01:10 PM
01/21/10 01:10 PM
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Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Guys have been running the stock p/up to 7000rpm`s for years w/out any issues but, it wouldn`t hurt.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thumperdart] #589824
01/21/10 02:00 PM
01/21/10 02:00 PM
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tjmarcus1 Offline
top fuel
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i'd have to say IF the 1/2" pickup is the only change being made, then it is not gonna help much, if any.

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: tjmarcus1] #589825
01/21/10 02:39 PM
01/21/10 02:39 PM
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Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

i'd have to say IF the 1/2" pickup is the only change being made, then it is not gonna help much, if any.


I have used both as well as single and dual external pickups. My personal street motor has a stock Mopar 3/8 pick and 1970-71 Street Hemi-440 6 pak 6 quart oil pan on it. I shift it at or above 7000 RPM at the track, three years on the same rod and main bearings. I do run loose (.003+) bearing clearnces and standard Valvoline 5W20WT or 5W30WT oil. I set the bypass pressure(by trimming the bypass spring) to 65 to 70 lbs with hot oil (150+F) at or above 6000 RPM IHTHs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589826
01/21/10 03:05 PM
01/21/10 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

May not big a big benefit but it is a benefit. Take a thick milkshake, use a big straw and a little straw, which one is easiest? Oil pump has to do the same thing.




But if your milkshake straw is big on the bottom and small on the top then no benefit is what I'm understanding?


True, the only way its of any benefit is if you open the block up to 1/2" pipe and do the internal passage mods. The 1/2" to 3/8" pickup is just a waste of welding rod. And I know we've all used the 3/8th pickup for years, the 1/2" is just a little more insurance, that's all.


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589827
01/21/10 05:53 PM
01/21/10 05:53 PM
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Posts: 25,858
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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I'm still of the opinuion that mods to the suction side of the system are just as important as mods to the pressure side. Given the relatively low expensive of the 1/2" pickup why not do it?


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: John_Kunkel] #589828
01/21/10 06:28 PM
01/21/10 06:28 PM
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Posts: 10,542
BROOK PARK, OH
WILD BILL Offline
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BROOK PARK, OH
I asked Scott his same question as I was bottom tapping my block. We will be doing a few mods to the oiling system but the 1/2" pick up is not one of them.

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: WILD BILL] #589829
01/21/10 06:46 PM
01/21/10 06:46 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOoC Offline
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I have never done this MOD myself .. but I know of some people that have. I don't really understand it ... IF you keep the passages on the OTHER SIDE of the oil pump the same.

B U T ... I have heard - more than once .. that after this MOD - the boss in the block has cracked .... and the pickup tube is now sucking-AIR ..and in one case the PU-tube became DISconnected from the block and fried the motor.

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: dOoC] #589830
01/21/10 08:07 PM
01/21/10 08:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,858
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel Offline
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Some pickup bosses are too thin to tap oversize, if the boss is sufficiently thick the reason to do this is because pumps are more efficient at pushing than they are at sucking; therefore, mods to increase the size of the suction side make sense.


The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: John_Kunkel] #589831
01/21/10 08:19 PM
01/21/10 08:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
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Franklin, TN
Rather than trying to drill the hole out from center, I took a die grinder and roughed out the hole, cutting into the block side and not taking any off of the thin side, then drilling and tapping took minimum off of the thin side, still not totally for the faint of heart, but can be done with common sense. If the block is thin to start with, its best not to try it.


Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: Thor500] #589832
01/21/10 08:34 PM
01/21/10 08:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,928
NC
440Jim Offline
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Quote:

Is the 1/2" oil pick-up mod of any great benefit to a bracket motor that will likely never see Rpm's above 6000?


I like the 1/2 NPT internal pickup with the rest of the block oiling mods. However, if you are staying under 6000 rpm and 500 hp, I don't think you need it.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: 440Jim] #589833
01/21/10 08:37 PM
01/21/10 08:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 625
Florida-West Coast
Thor500 Offline OP
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Florida-West Coast
Thanks for the good info. as usual

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: John_Kunkel] #589834
01/21/10 09:03 PM
01/21/10 09:03 PM
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Posts: 4,209
New York
polyspheric Offline
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mods to the suction side of the system are just as important as mods to the pressure side

More important: reducing suction-side pumping loss is Rule #1 in hydraulic engineering.
General hydraulic guidelines for sizing plumbing:
D = .64 × (GPM ÷ V)^.5
Values for "V" range from 4 f/s for the suction (LP intake) side, 10 f/s for returns, up to 25 f/s for pressure (HP discharge) side.
This means that the pressure side can have an area as small as 1/6th of the suction side (25 ÷ 4) without compromise. Of course, these are pressures above numbers we will use, but the suction side is always larger than the pressure side.
If the pressure passage is about .500" minimum (remind me?), the suction side should be at least twice as large, or .71" ID. Schedule 10 1/2-14 NPT pipe is .674" ID, 3/8-18 NPT is only .545" ID.

Reason 2: a restriction on the pressure side is at least partially self-correcting - flow increases with pressure. A restriction on the suction side reduces pressure - always, the only question is how much, and is this level dangerous.

Reason 3: any suction at all on the LP is asking for cavitation, which entrains air bubbles, makes oil compressible, reduces its specific heat, adds load to the pump drive, and chews metal off the pump gears (examine a bronze marine propeller some time).


Boffin Emeritus
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: polyspheric] #589835
01/21/10 09:29 PM
01/21/10 09:29 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOoC Offline
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Interesting data poly .... most of that is GREEK to me !

BTW .... does anyone know if the basic oiling passages in a HEMI block are the same as a B-engine ? .. I don't know ... I have never owned a HEMI.

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: dOoC] #589836
01/21/10 11:49 PM
01/21/10 11:49 PM
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Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee Offline
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Yes, they are,Doc.

Poly said;
A restriction on the suction side reduces pressure - always, the only question is how much, and is this level dangerous.

That is the reason making this mod is worth doing.

Last edited by 23T Hemmee; 01/21/10 11:53 PM.

Ronny
6.789 @ 198.63 **.956 Brand New 60'***
4.17@ 169 1/8th mile
John 14:6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUku_hjYRh8
Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: 23T Hemmee] #589837
01/21/10 11:59 PM
01/21/10 11:59 PM
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Florida STAYcation
dOoC Offline
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23T ...all of that considered ... I would agree - the mod is worth doing. But WHY didn't Ma-Mopar have all HP motors with a 1/2" PU ?

Re: 1/2" VS 3/8" Oil Pick-up? [Re: dOoC] #589838
01/22/10 01:26 AM
01/22/10 01:26 AM
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Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline
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Quote:

23T ...all of that considered ... I would agree - the mod is worth doing. But WHY didn't Ma-Mopar have all HP motors with a 1/2" PU ?




because HP motors didn't make 500+ horsepower.

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