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To lifter bore bushing or not? #559958 12/22/09 02:03 PM 12/22/09 02:03 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 834 Missouri G galen OP super stock
galen OP super stock G Joined: May 2009 Posts: 834 Missouri	Do I need to have lifter bores bushed on cast iron world block or could I just run a low oil pressure shut down in case of spitting out a lifter. Reason being, I have found an assembled shortblock that was done right, just no lifter bore bushings. Roller cam with pushrod oiling. Galen

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559959 12/22/09 02:16 PM 12/22/09 02:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 312 Alberta, Can JUST_N_TIME enthusiast
JUST_N_TIME enthusiast Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 312 Alberta, Can	Talk to Brian @ IMM

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559960 12/22/09 02:19 PM 12/22/09 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,046 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,046 Oregon	Non-bushed blocks have been working just fine for many years. There are some advantages to having the bushings installed but they aren't required for most bracket type motors.

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: JUST_N_TIME] #559961 12/22/09 02:26 PM 12/22/09 02:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan TS3303 top fuel
TS3303 top fuel Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan	no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble.

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: TS3303] #559962 12/22/09 02:44 PM 12/22/09 02:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble. This could turn into another pinion angle thread [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: B G Racing] #559963 12/22/09 03:00 PM 12/22/09 03:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan TS3303 top fuel
TS3303 top fuel Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan	Quote: This could turn into another pinion angle thread ??? why? do you disagree or have no opinion? IMO anything you can do to reduce the amount of oil taken from the mains and rods is a good thing.

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: TS3303] #559964 12/22/09 03:12 PM 12/22/09 03:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	Don't bush it and if you use IMM roller tappets you should not have to restrict the oil to the top end either. Because his tappets have the oil feed hole drilled paralell to the axle and the feed is an "edge orfice" design. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: TS3303] #559965 12/22/09 03:13 PM 12/22/09 03:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx Jacob Pitt master
Jacob Pitt master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,528 Mansfield, Tx	I just plugged the drivers side oil galley so no oil is pushed to that side and more oil stays on the mains/rods. Have over 600 passes like this and recently tore the engine down and every bearing looked great. This motor has a pretty mild cam in it but runs 9.50's@3300lbs in good air in the 1/4. This was a Mopar Mega block with no bushings. I don't feel they are neccesary unless you are uncovering the oil galley at full lift. Sorry just saw that you want to pushrod oil. Last edited by ChallyL427; 12/22/09 03:27 PM. 2013 NHRA D4 Stock Champ #4 in the World IHRA Stock 2x IHRA Div.4 Stock Champ 14x Track Champ All using a Ultimate Converter Concepts converter. Call Lenny today 704-892-6837

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: TS3303] #559966 12/22/09 03:24 PM 12/22/09 03:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 399 SouthEast Michigan P PETE@BESTMACHINE enthusiast
PETE@BESTMACHINE enthusiast P Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 399 SouthEast Michigan	You do not need to have the lifter bores bushed to run a roller lifter. If you want to pushrod oil than you do, Jim if its done right you do not need to have the pushrods restrict oil to the top of the engine and we do not have a low oil pressure problem the way we do ours. www.BestMachineRacing.com

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559967 12/22/09 03:29 PM 12/22/09 03:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 206 ohio prochamp enthusiast
prochamp enthusiast Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 206 ohio	TS3303 has some good points and to add to that with less oil in the area you wont have as much oil fallout right over top of the rotating assembly which could turn into windage drag and the bronze bushings will aid in lifter sideloading as well.may actually make a little horsepower gain if you do bush it.there is no good reason not to do it other than the expense and thats your call.

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: TS3303] #559968 12/22/09 04:07 PM 12/22/09 04:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA B G Racing master
B G Racing master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA	Quote: Quote: This could turn into another pinion angle thread ??? why? do you disagree or have no opinion? IMO anything you can do to reduce the amount of oil taken from the mains and rods is a good thing. No,it's not a matter of disagreement or not.I'am from the old school of metalergy:hard steel and cast iron adquately lubercated will demonstrate excellent wear for sustained periods of use.Bronze bushings are the main wear item when use against hardened steel lifters and the wear of the bronze is greater than the iron bore.Years ago when the wedge and Hemis ruled NASCAR,racers like the Pettys and others used a steel sleeve in the right bank lifter bores to shut off the galley oil,bronze would not hold up under the sustained race of the oval tracks.I believe that bushing the bores for correction(angle,size and location) is the proper thing to do and bronze is the easiest material to use and can be replaced if needed.With that being said,we seldom bush lifter bores unless there is a reason or need on either iron or aluminum blocks.There are alternative and less costly ways of controlling the oil and keeping it at the vital areas.Depending on the build,the intended use as well as the customers wishes,that $400 to $600 can be saved or spent else where.Respectfully Bob Last edited by B G Racing; 12/22/09 04:24 PM. [IMG]http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/ajcasini/max_zpsdppwd9km.jpg[/IMG]

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: B G Racing] #559969 12/22/09 04:37 PM 12/22/09 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble. This could turn into another pinion angle thread or bearing hacking

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559970 12/22/09 04:43 PM 12/22/09 04:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually B BradH Taking time off to work on my car
BradH Taking time off to work on my car B Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually	Not to hi-jack the thread, but would running solid roller lifters in a block using bushed lifter bores WITHOUT any additional oiling holes be a no-no for a street/strip application?

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: BradH] #559971 12/22/09 04:55 PM 12/22/09 04:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA Ron Silva top fuel
Ron Silva top fuel Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,880 USA	Quote: Not to hi-jack the thread, but would running solid roller lifters in a block using bushed lifter bores WITHOUT any additional oiling holes be a no-no for a street/strip application? I have done it without any problems. Had an R3 48 deg block and I ran the tappets dry (did not drill holes to provide oil to them). I did make sure I did not idle at traffic lights for an extended period of time. In that case I would always grab nuetral and throw a couple revs. It was nice having a real reason to show off that no one knew about. SRT DEMON ONE SEAT

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: Ron Silva] #559972 12/23/09 09:01 AM 12/23/09 09:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT M moper I Live Here
moper I Live Here M Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT	I always bush them just for the oil pressure loss reason. No exceptions. It costs $500. That's 5% of a $10K engine build... Which I would think is a low budget figure depending on the output needed. I know it fixes the lifter bore alignment, and it controls oil in good and bad circumstances. I have not seen a properly done set of bushings worn out. Now I dont do race engines.. so maybe with higher lifts and the required high spring pressures things are different. But once the machining is done for them, popping them in and out is a breeze. I have had friends loose engines because of minor valvetrain failures that resulted in oil pressure loss. There is no cutoff or way to stop the engine fast enough to avoid damage if the engine is in it's power band. IMO you need to prepare for the failure and over engineer it and $500 is nothing on a race engine build. Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: moper] #559973 12/23/09 05:57 PM 12/23/09 05:57 PM
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 834 Missouri G galen OP super stock
galen OP super stock G Joined: May 2009 Posts: 834 Missouri	Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559974 12/23/09 08:18 PM 12/23/09 08:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH B blownzoom440
blownzoom440 B Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 8,647 ELYRIA,OH	Quote: Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen mine is not bushed and wont be.i will keep an eye on how things wear.what # is on your block?

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? [Re: galen] #559975 12/23/09 08:22 PM 12/23/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC 440Jim I Live Here
440Jim I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,928 NC	Quote: Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen I thought the Koleno blocks were all bushed?

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