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To lifter bore bushing or not?

Posted By: galen

To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 06:03 PM

Do I need to have lifter bores bushed on cast iron world block or could I just run a low oil pressure shut down in case of spitting out a lifter. Reason being, I have found an assembled shortblock that was done right, just no lifter bore bushings. Roller cam with pushrod oiling. Galen
Posted By: JUST_N_TIME

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 06:16 PM

Talk to Brian @ IMM
Posted By: AndyF

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 06:19 PM

Non-bushed blocks have been working just fine for many years. There are some advantages to having the bushings installed but they aren't required for most bracket type motors.
Posted By: TS3303

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 06:26 PM

no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 06:44 PM

Quote:

no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble.

This could turn into another pinion angle thread
Posted By: TS3303

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 07:00 PM

Quote:

This could turn into another pinion angle thread



??? why? do you disagree or have no opinion? IMO anything you can do to reduce the amount of oil taken from the mains and rods is a good thing.
Posted By: Ron Silva

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 07:12 PM

Don't bush it and if you use IMM roller tappets you should not have to restrict the oil to the top end either. Because his tappets have the oil feed hole drilled paralell to the axle and the feed is an "edge orfice" design.
Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 07:13 PM

I just plugged the drivers side oil galley so no oil is pushed to that side and more oil stays on the mains/rods. Have over 600 passes like this and recently tore the engine down and every bearing looked great. This motor has a pretty mild cam in it but runs 9.50's@3300lbs in good air in the 1/4. This was a Mopar Mega block with no bushings. I don't feel they are neccesary unless you are uncovering the oil galley at full lift. Sorry just saw that you want to pushrod oil.
Posted By: PETE@BESTMACHINE

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 07:24 PM

You do not need to have the lifter bores bushed to run a roller lifter. If you want to pushrod oil than you do, Jim if its done right you do not need to have the pushrods restrict oil to the top of the engine and we do not have a low oil pressure problem the way we do ours.
Posted By: prochamp

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 07:29 PM

TS3303 has some good points and to add to that with less oil in the area you wont have as much oil fallout right over top of the rotating assembly which could turn into windage drag and the bronze bushings will aid in lifter sideloading as well.may actually make a little horsepower gain if you do bush it.there is no good reason not to do it other than the expense and thats your call.
Posted By: B G Racing

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 08:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

This could turn into another pinion angle thread



??? why? do you disagree or have no opinion? IMO anything you can do to reduce the amount of oil taken from the mains and rods is a good thing.

No,it's not a matter of disagreement or not.I'am from the old school of metalergy:hard steel and cast iron adquately lubercated will demonstrate excellent wear for sustained periods of use.Bronze bushings are the main wear item when use against hardened steel lifters and the wear of the bronze is greater than the iron bore.Years ago when the wedge and Hemis ruled NASCAR,racers like the Pettys and others used a steel sleeve in the right bank lifter bores to shut off the galley oil,bronze would not hold up under the sustained race of the oval tracks.I believe that bushing the bores for correction(angle,size and location) is the proper thing to do and bronze is the easiest material to use and can be replaced if needed.With that being said,we seldom bush lifter bores unless there is a reason or need on either iron or aluminum blocks.There are alternative and less costly ways of controlling the oil and keeping it at the vital areas.Depending on the build,the intended use as well as the customers wishes,that $400 to $600 can be saved or spent else where.Respectfully Bob
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 08:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

no offense but if it was "done right" it would already be bushed with the proper size oil hole in the bushing. Hopefully the pushrods have the right size hole in them to restrict oil to the top. Right now your at an easy point to make it right and add the bushings or you can gamble with low oil pressure and over oiling the top end. The $4-600 would be a good investment now that it is the off season and you have all winter to re assemble.

This could turn into another pinion angle thread



or bearing hacking
Posted By: BradH

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 08:43 PM

Not to hi-jack the thread, but would running solid roller lifters in a block using bushed lifter bores WITHOUT any additional oiling holes be a no-no for a street/strip application?
Posted By: Ron Silva

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/22/09 08:55 PM

Quote:

Not to hi-jack the thread, but would running solid roller lifters in a block using bushed lifter bores WITHOUT any additional oiling holes be a no-no for a street/strip application?



I have done it without any problems. Had an R3 48 deg block and I ran the tappets dry (did not drill holes to provide oil to them). I did make sure I did not idle at traffic lights for an extended period of time. In that case I would always grab nuetral and throw a couple revs. It was nice having a real reason to show off that no one knew about.
Posted By: moper

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/23/09 01:01 PM

I always bush them just for the oil pressure loss reason. No exceptions. It costs $500. That's 5% of a $10K engine build... Which I would think is a low budget figure depending on the output needed. I know it fixes the lifter bore alignment, and it controls oil in good and bad circumstances. I have not seen a properly done set of bushings worn out. Now I dont do race engines.. so maybe with higher lifts and the required high spring pressures things are different. But once the machining is done for them, popping them in and out is a breeze. I have had friends loose engines because of minor valvetrain failures that resulted in oil pressure loss. There is no cutoff or way to stop the engine fast enough to avoid damage if the engine is in it's power band. IMO you need to prepare for the failure and over engineer it and $500 is nothing on a race engine build.
Posted By: galen

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/23/09 09:57 PM

Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen
Posted By: blownzoom440

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/24/09 12:18 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen


mine is not bushed and wont be.i will keep an eye on how things wear.what # is on your block?
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: To lifter bore bushing or not? - 12/24/09 12:22 AM

Quote:

Thanks for the input, I am pretty excited. Going to use the Koleno block and have it bushed before assembly. Merry Christmas guys. Galen

I thought the Koleno blocks were all bushed?
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