After the usual amount of dinking around with a brand new combo we got some dyno pulls on the 505 motor this afternoon. 805 hp at 6400 rpm and 670 ft-lbs at 6100 rpm were the peak numbers.

A few of the pushrod cups started to turn blue so that brought our fun to an end. This motor has spray bar oilers but that isn't enough to keep the top end happy. Looks like I should have used pushrod oiling rather than the spray bars. I really didn't think the spray oilers would work and sure enough, they didn't.

what did it do the last time? and what changes?

Thats too bad that you didnt get to play more, still
pretty decent numbers, thats 1.59 hp per ci. Are
you changing to pushrod oiling

Last time it was on the dyno it made about 740 hp. Major change was from a big flat tappet cam (Comp MM305) to a roller cam. The roller cam had a few degrees less duration than the flat tappet but a ton more lift. Lift went from .650 to .830 on the intake side.

I also changed from a 440-3 intake to a 440-3X and I put a belt drive on the motor as well as a reverse flow water pump.

I doubt the belt drive or water pump made a power difference so I'm guessing it was mostly due to the cam change. I was going to do a -3 vs. -3X intake shoot out but ran out of time. Besides, the dyno operator wasn't too happy because the dyno needle was bouncing off the stops. His dyno torque gauge is only setup for about 700 ft-lbs and we were getting really close to that.

One other change I made was that I leaned out the intermediate circuit on my Holley Ultra HP by 80% from stock. Stock was an 46 jet and I leaned it out to a 20 jet. That is a 80% reduction in area and it seemed to work. The AF ratio leaned out to about 12.5 and stayed that way for the entire pull. With the stock jetting the motor would start the pull at 10:1 and then gradually lean down to 12 or so. I'm sure the carb tuning picked up some power too.

where the oil lines restricted ?


what whould this combo do in a 3470 pound car

Im collecting parts to do the same combo ?

The oil lines to the valve covers? No, I didn't add any restriction to them. The holes in spray bars aren't very big but I ran them just the way they came from Indy. I didn't make any mods to the valve covers.

When I first got these parts I really didn't think it would work with the heavy springs so I called Indy. The guy I talked to said that they run all their Jesel setups with spray bar oiling and it works just fine. Well it didn't work very well for me. I don't think I damaged any parts but the several of the pushrod ends were blue after just a few dyno pulls so I know it was headed south in a hurry.

nice build up Andy.
Weird about the pushrod problems...I run that setup too. My springs are about #750 Lbs open pressure, and 350# on the seat. I actually made my own spray bar lines out of 3/16 brake line. I have ball/ball pushrods, with the cup made in the adjuster. From the 1/4 npt in the back of the block to a Y block which is rectricted to .070, before the split, this is feeding both heads. I have been running this setup for a few seasons with zero problems. I have a friend on this board who has run them for 4-5 years, countless pass on the valve train. Solid roller .690 comp cam with zero problems. He also has ball/ball pushrods, I was told by a few diff machine shops that the cup pushrods could cuase this. Is it possiable?? As you can see the adjuster does have a hole hole drilled through them, is your adjusters hollow? How does the cup get oil?

Yep, my adjusters are drilled. I guess in theory the oil would go down the hole and oil the cup but the rocker arm is moving pretty fast so it also seems possible that the oil just gets flung off.

I'll pull some parts off the top end and post some pictures. Maybe someone will see something that I'm not seeing on why this didn't work.

All of the rocker arms had plenty of oil in them when I pulled the covers off and there is oil pooled around each valve spring so I think all the holes were spraying and plenty of oil was flying around.

Here is a picture of the pushrod ends. I took it apart this evening and inspected stuff really close. There doesn't appear to be any damage to anything but you can tell it was getting hot. The pushrods have a burnt oil smell to them so they were smoking hot. Had we kept making dyno pulls I'm pretty sure we would've started to eat parts.

Here is a snap shot with the motor on the dyno and almost ready to run. That -3X intake is a big honker. I wish I could've run a back to back against the smaller -3. I would've been interested to see the difference.

I tried out my new Nikon micro lens with a close up shot of one of the spark plugs. These are the Champion race plugs with the cut back electrode. This is the type of plug that Indy recommends with their heads. They say these plugs are basically bullet proof.

Andy,
that spark plug looks like it has some black spots on it. maybe some detonation going on?
what did those heads flow at .800 lift?
maybe a 2nd spraybar is needed with that rocker setup to get to the pushrod side. i don't know that i'd ever go the jesel route with those heads myself but it's some good info for the vault just in case.

Heads flow 350 cfm at .650, .700 and .800. I bet they flow 350 cfm if you pull the valves out of them!

A second spray bar might do the trick but I think I'd use pushrod oiling if I was going to run this combo. Just have to find the correct lifter. I have had trouble in that area before with lifters that don't really work to well.

I saw the little spots and wondered about some detonation. The ignition was set at 35 degrees and we ran race gas. So it should be a safe tune up but there could've been some detonation.

One nice thing about the crank trigger and the belt drive distributor is that the timing was rock steady. She started right up without any problem either. That was the first time for me using those parts so I was happy to see that they worked out okay.

Andy was the oil spraying on the rockers/pushrods
since you moved them around

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Here is a picture with the valve cover pulled on the dyno. Plenty of oil on each rocker arm and around each spring so I think the oil was spraying in the right locations. The pushrod cups are kind of hidden from the top though so it might just be hard for the oil to get down in there.

how much fuel did that engine use at peak HP and how were the BSFC numbers on it?
again, thanks for the update. that's a strong running combo.

Just my uneducated guess Andy, but the pushrods look a bit too long; perhaps being shielded from the oil by the rocker body. I'm glad you posted this, as I have similar problems with roller cammed, Indy EZ head setup. I use the standard Indy rocker that is supposed to supply oil to the pushrod cup via a small hole in the rocker body, but it's not enough. I'm going to have to cut a channel in the rocker body from the oil groove to the hole and physically connect the two and see if that works. I had fantasized that a fancy Jesel setup would somehow cure my ills. Thanks for letting me know otherwise.

Andy,
I have a B1 original style cylinder head engine.For the oiling i actually made my own tubing and fitted nitrous nozzels (4) per each side and ran them to the back of the block with a simple manifold that picks up of the back oil passage.
the nozzels are faced right at the back off the rocker and valve spring and is more than enough. i grubbed screwed the oil passages in the block that feed the heads as i am using T&D induvidual shaft rockers.
so all oiling now comes from the nozzels. i screwed them into the rocker covers and they work very well.
Regards simon

Just for thought; we once fought with a similar problem we found no reason for. Everything was like they were supposed to be, but the problem existed and was a result of going to a bigger cam & springs. It all ended by switching to another oil, after that no problems at all. Seems like the oil we were using couldn't handle the surface pressures of the new springs. Perhaps worth trying?