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oh man Tony you are a brave soul. Bob said he's going to a party. When he gets back his furr will be all matted, smelling of stale bear and cigars and will unlease the hogpen on you......

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same here, we are heading to a party also when I get back ask me if I care

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it's a given that the angle changes from start to finish. the question I ask is why would you not choose the method that has more advantages?

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it's a given that the angle changes from start to finish. the question I ask is why would you not choose the method that has more advantages?

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See, right here is where it seems, that you prove the other point. You admit, the angle changes as the car moves, so I fail to see how going to all the trouble to check all that other stuff has any advantage. Any advantage, if there was any to start, is immediately gone, as soon as the car moves. As soon as the rear moves ANY, the tranny and rear are no longer on the same angle plane, if you went to the trouble to set that, because, as stated, the rear swings in an arc. As SOON as that happens, that blows your whole theory, about matching angles and equal joint speed, because those parameters no longer exist. Equal angles and joint speed is important for a road car, that you want to ride super smooth, the joints to last 100,000 miles and so forth. Those type vehicles remain in the same position as where they were set up, 90% of the time and you only worry about road jounce or a heavy load. A drag car is only in the set up position, sitting in the pits, or on the return road. You are not likely to notice a less than smooth ride, or throw the shaft out, while towing or driving the car here.

Monte

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well I agree with that but why not if it doesn't hurt anything? like I said rossler has solved many tailshaft and tranny problems (according to them) by doing it this way. if there is no down fall why not? does a 4 link cars rear travel as much as a leaf spring car? you are the expert not me but in my tiny mind (according to BG ) it just seems like a better way. and why do the guys I mention recommend this method?

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I have a hunch the reason many people believe in both methods is simple. The driveshaft to pinion measurement is seldom wrong due to the fact that most cars are built right to start with, with the shaft and engine centerline very close to right. Secondly, it takes a fare amount of improper angle to produce real problems with our type of equipment. The torque converter acts as a cushion, the tires act as a cushion.
I got my driveshaft education in the 60s , on a piece of equipment that would tear itself apart if you didn't get it close, or right.
A single U joint if run at an angle, and run at a steady speed, will produce a faster/slower motion twice per revolution. It is zero difference to very little at low angles, but grows rapidly as the angle gets further from correct
(shame on me, I just couldn't stay out of it!

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Im glad you jumped in mike

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did I miss anything important

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yes, start from the beginning

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On a 4 link doesnt the pinion if its set straight/level stay on that same Level plane through out its arc travel.

Im no expert but I think it does. If thats the case then it may be the perfect example to use to explain the pinion angle based off the tranny centerline method.

If it is the case, That the pinion stays at the same angle through out the rear ends arc on a 4 link.

.Only moving up and down on the same Level plane. The Pinion angle is Not changing.

Only the driveshaft and joint angles have changed, not the pinion angle from parralel.

Just a Friendly rear end pinion angle talk mike

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No, it does not stay on the same plane.
The only way that could happen, is for the rear to be on an up and down slide, it is not, it swings in an arc, just like a ladder bar, just like a leaf spring.

I know some of you just think I am busting Tony's stones for fun, and while that may be part of it that is not the only reason. I use the method I do, because I know it works and have had good successs with it. I don't use his method, because as pointed out, you go to all that trouble and as soon as the car moves, all that is out the window. I have always raced cars, but I have not always made a living working with race cars. One of the jobs I had for nearly 20 years, was as a Millwright. Now if you don't know what that means, it means I worked as an industrial maint mechanic and my crew was in charge of setting and aligning equipment in a very large Monsanto plant. My crew was considered one of the best at what we did and worked all the big jobs at that plant and even traveled to others to set equipment and align it. I have set and aligned huge pieces of equipment and drivelines, some bigger than most houses. We used dial indicators to align the couplings on pumps, motors and huge industrial drivelines, that have alignment tolerances in the .001, so I know how important driveline angles and proper alignment can be. That also allows me to understand the basics of the driveline in a race car and how really insignificant most of these pinion angle discussions are. There is nothing even remotely precise about the driveline in a race car and therefore, much time spent worrying about the pinion angle, is time wasted.

Monte

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so I then do need all these tools to do the job also

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On a 4 link doesnt the pinion if its set straight/level stay on that same Level plane through out its arc travel.

Im no expert but I think it does. If thats the case then it may be the perfect example to use to explain the pinion angle based off the tranny centerline method.

If it is the case, That the pinion stays at the same angle through out the rear ends arc on a 4 link.

.Only moving up and down on the same Level plane. The Pinion angle is Not changing.

Only the driveshaft and joint angles have changed, not the pinion angle from parralel.

Just a Friendly rear end pinion angle talk mike

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No, it does not stay on the same plane.


The only way that could happen, is for the rear to be on an up and down slide, it is not, it swings in an arc, just like a ladder bar, just like a leaf spring.





Just to be Clear are you reffering to the Axels plane or the Pinions plane??

The above statement appears to refer to the axels plane and is 100% correct as stated. It does swing in an arc and not a single plane.


My Question is while the axel is swinging in its Arc will the Pinion maintain its set horizontal plane by the design of the 4 link bars.

While the axel swings down the Bars lengths/angles rotate the said axel to maintain its original pinion angle.

Asked another way, If we hang a Angle finder on the Pinion and swing the axel through its arc.

Will the angle finder on the Pinion read the same throughout that arc? Or at least nearly the same to within a degree?

I thought the 4 link bars were designed in part to do just that. mike

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ok so let me get this straight. other than it taking a little more time to do there are no downfalls to setting it off the motor tranny center line?

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Why screw with the tranny when it is in a fix position when all you need is to adjust your rearend by shims or turning the bars.Even street cars and 4X4 never change the fixed drivetran componants,just adjust the pinion angle to the driveshaft.Why kill a cow,gut it ,butcher it,process it,wrap it freeze it,store it,thaw it unwrap it and cook it when just go to the supermarket,buy it cook it and eat it,or better yet lets all go to the Texas Roadhouse and have one of those little "cowgirls" serve up us steaks.What sounds better and is easier?Moooving along

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No, the pinion angle will change

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In relationship to what, Your statement alone doesnt answer the question.

It Will change in relationship to the Driveshaft!

But will it change from its original preset angle??


Thats The Question I want answered, even if it takes a Millright to do it. mike