Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: mr2performance]
#553080
12/17/09 10:45 PM
12/17/09 10:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan
TS3303
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Quote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better , my old dusty 1985 dave morgan chassis tuning manual comes out of retirement, maybe this is the "data" he was referring to.......hmmmmmmm
Mike, I have an identical book but it doesn't say Dave Morgan in the upper left where yours is whited out.........
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: TS3303]
#553082
12/17/09 10:47 PM
12/17/09 10:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 729 Lebanon,IN
mr2performance
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super stock
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Lebanon,IN
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We need to Update the t-shirt!
MR2PERFORMANCE RACE CARS
765 483 9371
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: TS3303]
#553083
12/17/09 10:52 PM
12/17/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 729 Lebanon,IN
mr2performance
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Lebanon,IN
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Mine says Dave Morgan on it. He was sponsored by Alston back in the eighties (60's) though.
MR2PERFORMANCE RACE CARS
765 483 9371
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: mr2performance]
#553084
12/17/09 10:55 PM
12/17/09 10:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
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Quote:
Mine says Dave Morgan on it. He was sponsored by Alston back in the eighties (60's) though.
he worked for alston for many years. racepak has just come on board to sponsor him. imagine that, sponsoring somebody who doesn't know how to set pinion angle sombody needs to send calvert a t-shirt also along with spicer.
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: Quicktree]
#553086
12/17/09 11:02 PM
12/17/09 11:02 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better , my old dusty 1985 dave morgan chassis tuning manual comes out of retirement, maybe this is the "data" he was referring to.......hmmmmmmm
you must just look at pictures and don't read anything Dave has stated that is they way they done things back in the 60s. he has said many times after testing and solving many vibration and drive train issues he found it not to be correct in his opinion. he now recommends setting of of the motor/tranny center line. nice try though. it must really make you think also take a look, the motor/tranny center line is on the same line as the drive shaft......
Tony if you notice that the drive line is in line in that pic... same way I set up my chassis stuff, then I dial in the pinion angle on the drive shaft just like the pic, which gives the front and rear U-joints just a bit of angle for lube purposes
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#553087
12/17/09 11:05 PM
12/17/09 11:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better , my old dusty 1985 dave morgan chassis tuning manual comes out of retirement, maybe this is the "data" he was referring to.......hmmmmmmm
you must just look at pictures and don't read anything Dave has stated that is they way they done things back in the 60s. he has said many times after testing and solving many vibration and drive train issues he found it not to be correct in his opinion. he now recommends setting of of the motor/tranny center line. nice try though. it must really make you think also take a look, the motor/tranny center line is on the same line as the drive shaft......
Tony if you notice that the drive line is in line in that pic... same way I set up my chassis stuff, then I dial in the pinion angle on the drive shaft just like the pic, which gives the front and rear U-joints just a bit of angle for lube purposes
with that pic it further proves my point. you could pull that shaft out and still set your angle
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: Quicktree]
#553088
12/17/09 11:18 PM
12/17/09 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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All that I'm saying (and always have) is there may be more ways to get to the end of the road.... yes it COULD mean the trans and ALSO mean the drive shaft 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of the other..... same end point but from a different exit. You might notice that when people ask about this, I give BOTH choices, not what I think might be correct
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#553089
12/17/09 11:19 PM
12/17/09 11:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
All that I'm saying (and always have) is there may be more ways to get to the end of the road.... yes it COULD mean the trans and ALSO mean the drive shaft 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen of the other..... same end point but from a different exit. You might notice that when people ask about this, I give BOTH choices, not what I think might be correct
you do that to cover your butt
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: sixpackgut]
#553090
12/17/09 11:53 PM
12/17/09 11:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,445 Sterling Heights, Michigan 483...
daniel_depetro
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pro stock
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Quote:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7571/
back for the holidays
That is the best thing I have ever watched that someone made, period!
1969 Dodge Super Bee A12 (440 Six Pack, 4-speed, Dana 60 4.10)
1972 Plymouth Road Runner (400, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
1974 Plymouth Duster 360 (360, 4-speed, 8.75" 3.23)
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: Quicktree]
#553091
12/18/09 12:14 AM
12/18/09 12:14 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better , my old dusty 1985 dave morgan chassis tuning manual comes out of retirement, maybe this is the "data" he was referring to.......hmmmmmmm
you must just look at pictures and don't read anything Dave has stated that is they way they done things back in the 60s. he has said many times after testing and solving many vibration and drive train issues he found it not to be correct in his opinion. he now recommends setting of of the motor/tranny center line. nice try though. it must really make you think also take a look, the motor/tranny center line is on the same line as the drive shaft......
Wow!!, How did I miss this thread
All of Dave Morgans pics Shows a desired "Parallel driveline angle."
In the pics it shows that the tranny centerline and pinion centerline are on the Same plane.
In That case 'YES: you can set your Pinion angle Off the Driveshaft Alone for a optimized U jount function.
For the most part in the real world thats not the case. In the Real world if you set Pinion angle off the driveshaft Alone, Its a Crapshoot.
You Have No Idea what your True Pinion Angle is!
Now,Does That really Matter Ahhhh?? Yeah It could Be! Universal jounts are Forgiving.
But heres the Best Point I can Make!!
Universal Jounts Function Best with the Least amount of Friction and also occilation at a Parallel angle.
If your measuring Pinion angle off the Driveshaft alone, your measuring it Blindly.
I think its Time That Once and for all We ALL understand
HOW Universal Jounts Work!!
There is Vidieo on this. They Want a parallel plane. Pure and Simple.
Even Dave Morgan Agrees
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: Blown71X]
#553092
12/18/09 12:16 AM
12/18/09 12:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan
TS3303
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Quote:
My head hurts....anybody have any asprin
anyone got a link to the last PA love fest? I forget who does it which way.
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: Quicktree]
#553093
12/18/09 12:36 AM
12/18/09 12:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just when you thought it couldn't get any better , my old dusty 1985 dave morgan chassis tuning manual comes out of retirement, maybe this is the "data" he was referring to.......hmmmmmmm
you must just look at pictures and don't read anything Dave has stated that is they way they done things back in the 60s. he has said many times after testing and solving many vibration and drive train issues he found it not to be correct in his opinion. he now recommends setting of of the motor/tranny center line. nice try though. it must really make you think also take a look, the motor/tranny center line is on the same line as the drive shaft......
Tony if you notice that the drive line is in line in that pic... same way I set up my chassis stuff, then I dial in the pinion angle on the drive shaft just like the pic, which gives the front and rear U-joints just a bit of angle for lube purposes
with that pic it further proves my point. you could pull that shaft out and still set your angle
Actually Tony if you look at the pic, that one is set up INCORRECTLY... if you notice that the front joint is in line BUT the rear still has the pinion angle on it... you want BOTH joints to be in line while under load... in the case of the pic, as the pinion rotates up it will pull the rear into line but the shaft will move upward moving the front joint off of the same line.... when I set up my chassis/engine I use a laser that I made up to fit in the rear main of the engine and set the engine and pinion all in line.... then rotate the pinion down which will give BOTH joints movement for lube while not under full load
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#553094
12/18/09 01:02 AM
12/18/09 01:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,981 SE Michigan
TS3303
top fuel
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top fuel
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Posts: 1,981
SE Michigan
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Quote:
you want BOTH joints to be in line while under load...
.... then rotate the pinion down which will give BOTH joints movement for lube while not under full load
if you have everything inline with no misalignment the ujoints do not move, just spin with the crank/driveshaft/pinion leaving the needle bearings stationary. That creates point contact between the roller and shaft causing flat spots under load. For the needle bearings to roll you need working angles and the front and rear should cancel each other out to maintain constant velocity. IMO you want a small equal but opposite working angle under load to work the ujoints. when the working angles are to far off is when you have driveline vibrations due to the different velocities in the ujoints. flame away.
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: TS3303]
#553095
12/18/09 01:13 AM
12/18/09 01:13 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
Quote:
you want BOTH joints to be in line while under load...
.... then rotate the pinion down which will give BOTH joints movement for lube while not under full load
if you have everything inline with no misalignment the ujoints do not move, just spin with the crank/driveshaft/pinion leaving the needle bearings stationary. That creates point contact between the roller and shaft causing flat spots under load. For the needle bearings to roll you need working angles and the front and rear should cancel each other out to maintain constant velocity. IMO you want a small equal but opposite working angle under load to work the ujoints. when the working angles are to far off is when you have driveline vibrations due to the different velocities in the ujoints. flame away.
No I'm not gonna flame away but I really dont think you (at least me) get it 100% in line but I try to, and I still have the same joints in it since I built the car(both times) without any sign of wear or flatting.... but then again I dont make much power
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Re: Dave Morgan chassis seminar a success
[Re: TS3303]
#553098
12/18/09 01:40 AM
12/18/09 01:40 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
it may see that perfectly inline scenario somewhere during launch/acceleration but with the dynamics of the rear suspension it's not staying there for long. so what does that mean in the big picture? My guess and I have talked to Monte in PM's during the last PA love fest and he agreed (I think? don't mean to put words in his mouth) that as long as we're close that's good enough. IMO as long as we keep the working angles within a degree of each other we are good to go.
I would have to agree .... the launch sees the greatest load so thats when I HOPE its in line but as torque replenishes it isnt in line any longer
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