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why? neither one of you have a good argument on why to ignore the front ujoint. I tend to lean towards somebody that has done extensive testing in this area. if you have some kind of hard proof I am all ears but to this point the best you guys can do is give some kind of 4 wheel drive reference

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I gave you PROOF with my car (it's not 4 wheel drive)........and it didn't work doing it the way you explain......I'm the one that had to cut off the perches and reweld everything, and believe me, I've set the pinion angle on a LOT of cars the other way and NEVER had an issue..........What else do you want to know???

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why? neither one of you have a good argument on why to ignore the front ujoint. I tend to lean towards somebody that has done extensive testing in this area. if you have some kind of hard proof I am all ears but to this point the best you guys can do is give some kind of 4 wheel drive reference

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I gave you PROOF with my car (it's not 4 wheel drive)........and it didn't work doing it the way you explain......I'm the one that had to cut off the perches and reweld everything, and believe me, I've set the pinion angle on a LOT of cars the other way and NEVER had an issue..........What else do you want to know???

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thats not proof to many other things could be involved

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I hope his class got alot better than the one I went to in richmond va a year or so ago that was a waste of money. spend hours on how shocks work and talked about how they did things 20 years ago. went with 2 other guys and I was sorry I told them about it because they were not happy either. Now the seminar with monty was well worth the money. maybe he can do a chassis seminar.

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thats not proof to many other things could be involved

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Like what?

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I hope his class got alot better than the one I went to in richmond va a year or so ago that was a waste of money. spend hours on how shocks work and talked about how they did things 20 years ago. went with 2 other guys and I was sorry I told them about it because they were not happy either. Now the seminar with monty was well worth the money. maybe he can do a chassis seminar.

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I had the exact same experience with a 4 others that talked me into going........His class was cheap, and still wasn't worth the money IMHO....... I was surprised that there was absolutely no talk about suspension/shock tuning.......

Having said that, the two day class may be better???

I've talked to Monte about doing a supsension class, but he doesn't think he could talk about just suspensions for 6 to 8 hours.......I had Ron Thomas (chassisman) lined up to teach a class, but there just wasn't enough interest.....Nitrous is one of those things where if it's wrong, it could kill your motor.......if your suspension is wrong, people just put a bigger tire on it or are happy with mediocrity.........

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Wayne Give up, The master of all things drag racing has spoken.
This topic is done...who is up for a 509 cam discussion

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oh knock off the BS, I know you could come up with something better than that nothing wrong with a friendly debate with any subject. I consider both of these guys my friends. we just happen to believe in different things. it's obvious both work to some degree.

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Like what?

oh yea, like the entire suspension. front to rear, shocks, springs everything. your example doesn't prove anything to me

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Springs.......I had some REALLY stiff leaf springs made for my car.....It's a stick, I didn't want to use Cal-tracs, and I wanted to leave hard....They look like truck spings.....They're so stiff that when you jack the car up and set jack stand under the front spring hangers, the rearend hardly comes down at all.. .......so, that should help the pinion not go nose down as bad as stock springs and make it howl..........

Front suspension and Shocks.....I don't understand how they could make the rearend howl......It's just got some CE 50/50's on the rear......

My car was fine as long as I was accelerating or at a steady speed.......If I let off the throttle even just a little bit, it howled so bad it was unbelievable.......


Morgan.......on shocks....I think Morgan could have spent 10 minutes on them and been done.....Show one apart and stress how important they are.......and then it'd been nice if he'd have talked about shock tuning.......

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Guys I am only going to say this one thing then let you guys get back to it. I have been working with Dave for 5 years now and have hosted 6 different seminars in Texas with him and every time he comes here we talk about it before hand and I learn from Dave every time he comes out. The best experience I have had was last year when we did the 6 hour class and then went to the track and did inspections and made passes with the cars and started making adjustments there. Yes everyone has a different approach to a subject. If Monte ever did a seminar on this subject I would love to go for a different perspective. Dave has a great class. If you are already seasoned in chassis and suspension then you may not pick up as much as someone just starting to learn. But we have been working on setting the class up to where everyone will pull more out of the class. And with some of the things that are starting to be discussed I believe that next year there will be quite a bit of change in the classes and the information that will be in the class.

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I enjoyed Daves class when he was in Kalamazoo a
few years ago... he did spend a fair amount of time
on shocks but the people in the class also dictate
what they want to discuss (to an extent) plus Dave,
my wife and I sat down afterwords in the pub for a
couple of hours still discussing different subjects

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I hate pinion angle If we took all the time wasted on this site talking about it, we could have started our own tranny shop and made up our own pinion angle check sheets.... Then we'd all be heros. Mike

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you are probably right Mike but we really have nothing else to talk about. people think Ray and I are enimies but we really are friends. I think

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if you pick up one thing that helps your race program it's worth the money imo.

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THAT IS A FACT for $85!

Would I go again? probably not.
Do I regret going? Absolutely not.
Would I recommend it to someone for a first time? Absolutely.

also as Mike said the class discussion will go in the direction of the majority of students. having leaf spring, ladder bar and 4 link students there makes it hard to be specific on one particular topic. Mike, Hemi Al, and I wanted to go in the 4 link chassis car direction but we had 3 or 4 LS guys so it went back and forth. And the students can keep the shock section from taking up too much time but directing the conversation.

plus your out of the house hanging with other racers for the day. only thing better is if he had it at Hooters.

oh yeah, were's the class pictures of you dorks?

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[quote only thing better is if he had it at Hooters.

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Didn't think of that one. Maybe I should put that on the list for next year!

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better yet just have some strippers come to the seminar

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[quote only thing better is if he had it at Hooters.

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Didn't think of that one. Maybe I should put that on the list for next year!

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better yet just have some strippers come to the seminar

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no wonder you can't figure out "pinion" angle. They have medicine now to help you old guys set pinion angle.

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[quote only thing better is if he had it at Hooters.

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Didn't think of that one. Maybe I should put that on the list for next year!

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better yet just have some strippers come to the seminar

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no wonder you can't figure out "pinion" angle. They have medicine now to help you old guys set pinion angle.

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Pinion nose down without,pinion nose up with.I have been standing it up without for over forty years.Been doing it wrong,but never broke a tranny case,u-joint,driveshaft or yoke in the last 30 years,pinion to shaft or shaft to pinion

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well, its a good thing i wasnt there

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Me too.......I guess everyone likes to over rocketeer it and pee in the ocean to raise the tide........

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why? neither one of you have a good argument on why to ignore the front ujoint. I tend to lean towards somebody that has done extensive testing in this area. if you have some kind of hard proof I am all ears but to this point the best you guys can do is give some kind of 4 wheel drive reference

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