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change my cr with more boost? #539410
11/28/09 09:02 PM
11/28/09 09:02 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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3.75 stroke,6.766 rod,2.060 ch piston but it is .060 in the hole.the wiseco site said 0 deck at 10.701 ,95cc combustion chamber[346 heads polished],.043 copper head gasket and i would go to .093.i have to check the deck height on the KP440 but i will retain the taller DH if i can.the static CR change is from 7.689 from 8.353 and the boost wil go from 12lbs to 15/16 lbs.
ur thaughts?it should help maintain the 110 sunoco fuel and timing.[no?]

Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539411
11/28/09 09:52 PM
11/28/09 09:52 PM
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Triple Threat Offline
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ever thought about meth injection?


-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: Triple Threat] #539412
11/28/09 09:59 PM
11/28/09 09:59 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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Quote:

ever thought about meth injection?



i have a boost cooler kit from yrs ago still i was thinking of using but want to keep it simplejust using the intercooler.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: blownzoom440] #539413
11/28/09 11:03 PM
11/28/09 11:03 PM

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Re: change my cr with more boost? #539414
11/28/09 11:05 PM
11/28/09 11:05 PM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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Quote:

that's why they make different tooth pulleys



i am going to 10% OD from 10%UD changing the pulleys i asked about the static CR but with more boost.come to think of it i would want to lower the timing from 30* to maybe 26*

Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/28/09 11:07 PM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539415
11/28/09 11:26 PM
11/28/09 11:26 PM

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Quote:

3.75 stroke,6.766 rod,2.060 ch piston but it is .060 in the hole.the wiseco site said 0 deck at 10.701 ,95cc combustion chamber[346 heads polished],.043 copper head gasket and i would go to .093.i have to check the deck height on the KP440 but i will retain the taller DH if i can.the static CR change is from 7.689 from 8.353 and the boost wil go from 12lbs to 15/16 lbs.
ur thaughts?it should help maintain the 110 sunoco fuel and timing.[no?]




as a random thought, your basically doubling atmospheric pressure at 15+ lbs of boost, so think of the cylinder pressure you'll see. i have no idea what cam your running but the equivilent could easily be like a 16+-1 N/A motor. they don't typically run well on 110 octane due to detonation (even though you might not actually hear it).
the intercooler is a must IMO to have any real chance of success, along with the reduced timing.
no offense, but the configuration of the piston, iron head, gasket, etc. is not the most optimum for an efficiant boost combo. in other words, there's more potential for power with a different configuration and less boost, than there might be with the current one and more boost if 110 octane is the only choice of fuel. like i said, just random thoughts.

Re: change my cr with more boost? #539416
11/28/09 11:30 PM
11/28/09 11:30 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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no big deal my cam has .631 lift and 40* overlap at .050 and a intake closing at 59*atdc i dont have a cranking cr as of yet.i know i dont have the best if parts matching.110 is not the only fuel but would hel reduce fuel cost but if piston dammage is a risk then up to c-16 it may have to be.

Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/28/09 11:34 PM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539417
11/28/09 11:38 PM
11/28/09 11:38 PM

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Quote:

no big deal my cam has .631 lift and 40* overlap at .050 and a intake closing at 59*atdc i dont have a cranking cr as of yet.i know i dont have the best if parts matching.110 is not the only fuel but would hel reduce fuel cost but if piston dammage is a risk then up to c-16 it may have to be.




hopefully you mean 59* ABDC. what's the LSA?

Re: change my cr with more boost? #539418
11/28/09 11:41 PM
11/28/09 11:41 PM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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.646 intake/.631 exh[correction]260/296 at .050 112 LSA installed 0 advance
events at .050
int open 21btdc close 59abdc
exh 69 bbdc close19 atdc
duration at .020 is 291int/306 exh to go wit the # above.

Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/28/09 11:51 PM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539419
11/29/09 10:32 PM
11/29/09 10:32 PM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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final thaughts any1?i am going with the thicker gasket iether way.thanks for your input allready.

Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539420
11/29/09 11:21 PM
11/29/09 11:21 PM

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Quote:

final thaughts any1?i am going with the thicker gasket iether way.thanks for your input allready.




realistically, is there anything anyone could say that would make you do things differently? have you considered a cam change, have you considered a more efficient piston design? for starters?

Re: change my cr with more boost? #539421
11/30/09 01:53 AM
11/30/09 01:53 AM
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reducing the timing might help with your (possible) detonation issues but it'll put a lot of heat in the exhaust side of the motor. I'd rather run less boost with the proper total timing and whatever fuel is necessary to do it. Otherwise you're just compromising.

Re: change my cr with more boost? #539422
11/30/09 04:44 AM
11/30/09 04:44 AM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

final thaughts any1?i am going with the thicker gasket iether way.thanks for your input allready.




realistically, is there anything anyone could say that would make you do things differently? have you considered a cam change, have you considered a more efficient piston design? for starters?



what would you change on the cam?reason?
what is wrong with the piston?i may chang this at this time.i am just trying to make use of the parts i have by increasing the head gasket to lower the cr.i can be reasoned into changing things but i dont do it overnight.
thanks for your input.

Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: dodgeboy11] #539423
11/30/09 04:53 AM
11/30/09 04:53 AM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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Quote:

reducing the timing might help with your (possible) detonation issues but it'll put a lot of heat in the exhaust side of the motor. I'd rather run less boost with the proper total timing and whatever fuel is necessary to do it. Otherwise you're just compromising.



i dont have much overlap in the cam so some heat in the pipes may not hurt things.i changed the overlap in the cam because i was blowing the fuel out the exhaust.in my opinion. i had the timing redused to help the stock main caps but now with a koleno block a full tune is in order.
and now the rest of the story[to quote a famouse radio voice]

Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539424
11/30/09 10:01 AM
11/30/09 10:01 AM
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Quote:

4. Compression ratio with boost

Before discussing compression ratio and boost, it is important to understand engine knock, also known as detonation. Knock is a dangerous condition caused by uncontrolled combustion of the air/fuel mixture. This abnormal combustion causes rapid spikes in cylinder pressure which can result in engine damage.

Three primary factors that influence engine knock are:

Knock resistance characteristics (knock limit) of the engine: Since every engine is vastly different when it comes to knock resistance, there is no single answer to "how much." Design features such as combustion chamber geometry, spark plug location, bore size and compression ratio all affect the knock characteristics of an engine.
Ambient air conditions: For the turbocharger application, both ambient air conditions and engine inlet conditions affect maximum boost. Hot air and high cylinder pressure increases the tendency of an engine to knock. When an engine is boosted, the intake air temperature increases, thus increasing the tendency to knock. Charge air cooling (e.g. an intercooler) addresses this concern by cooling the compressed air produced by the turbocharger
Octane rating of the fuel being used: octane is a measure of a fuel's ability to resist knock. The octane rating for pump gas ranges from 85 to 94, while racing fuel would be well above 100. The higher the octane rating of the fuel, the more resistant to knock. Since knock can be damaging to an engine, it is important to use fuel of sufficient octane for the application. Generally speaking, the more boost run, the higher the octane requirement.
This cannot be overstated: engine calibration of fuel and spark plays an enormous role in dictating knock behavior of an engine. See Section 5 below for more details.
Now that we have introduced knock/detonation, contributing factors and ways to decrease the likelihood of detonation, let's talk about compression ratio.

The compression ratio from the factory will be different for naturally aspirated engines and boosted engines. For example, a stock Honda S2000 has a compression ratio of 11.1:1, whereas a turbocharged Subaru Impreza WRX has a compression ratio of 8.0:1.

There are numerous factors that affect the maximum allowable compression ratio. There is no single correct answer for every application. Generally, compression ratio should be set as high as feasible without encountering detonation at the maximum load condition. Compression ratio that is too low will result in an engine that is a bit sluggish in off-boost operation. However, if it is too high this can lead to serious knock-related engine problems.

Factors that influence the compression ratio include: fuel anti-knock properties (octane rating), boost pressure, intake air temperature, combustion chamber design, ignition timing, valve events, and exhaust backpressure. Many modern normally-aspirated engines have well-designed combustion chambers that, with appropriate tuning, will allow modest boost levels with no change to compression ratio. For higher power targets with more boost , compression ratio should be adjusted to compensate.

There are a handful of ways to reduce compression ratio, some better than others. Least desirable is adding a spacer between the block and the head. These spacers reduce the amount a "quench" designed into an engine's combustion chambers, and can alter cam timing as well. Spacers are, however, relatively simple and inexpensive.

A better option, if more expensive and time-consuming to install, is to use lower-compression pistons. These will have no adverse effects on cam timing or the head's ability to seal, and allow proper quench regions in the combustion chambers.




"Turbo will be easiest, and at the HP level will also be easiest on parts. Spend the money to do it right, and you can build a 500 HP street motor that will live a long and happy life, and probably with a very basic short block." Those words must have left a bad taste in his mouth!
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: DCI] #539425
11/30/09 05:43 PM
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Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/30/09 07:54 PM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539426
11/30/09 07:57 PM
11/30/09 07:57 PM
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here is some info on boost.[above]
i did an online calculator and my dynamic cranking psi is 119psi.plus the 15lbs of boost and i thing that would put me around 240psi for 110 fuel.

Last edited by METAL STORM; 11/30/09 10:09 PM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539427
12/01/09 01:32 AM
12/01/09 01:32 AM
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
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E85?

Kevin

Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: Twostick] #539428
12/01/09 07:31 AM
12/01/09 07:31 AM
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blownzoom440 Offline OP
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Quote:

E85?

Kevin



M 1 meth!i hope to convert next yr.this is part of my problem i need to lower the cr this yr and raise it for the meth.i cant have both worlds.

Last edited by METAL STORM; 12/01/09 08:13 AM.
Re: change my cr with more boost? [Re: blownzoom440] #539429
12/01/09 08:37 AM
12/01/09 08:37 AM

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Quote:

here is some info on boost.[above]
i did an online calculator and my dynamic cranking psi is 119psi.plus the 15lbs of boost and i thing that would put me around 240psi for 110 fuel.




what is the actual cranking compression with the current engine cinfiguration?

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