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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: ewolfe]
#513128
11/01/09 04:39 PM
11/01/09 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I would get a 2000-02 magnum if I had the choice but they are all very close. The heads I have recently found out have slightly bigger ports not much but a hair, 5cc on the two sets of later heads I have here. Also they had a slightly better cam, the same cam as the R/Ts originally had, the last couple years they all got that slightly revised cam. You should be able to get a good low miles one for $500-700 and bolt on headers and an RPM air-gap intake and make close to 350 HP. The 300 hp crate motor has made 320-325 on several different dynos when it has good headers, and it had a smaller crappy cam and crappy M1 intake. With a re-ground cam and better springs you could get close to 400hp.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#513131
11/02/09 08:46 AM
11/02/09 08:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
I would get a magnum short block. Look for 93 and later 360. Reason I'd go short block is the factory heads crack. I think I've seen one set off a take-off engine that weren't cracked. Anyway, get the short block and go either Edelbrock magnums or those new indy cast iron magnum heads. I think there's one other brand out there that's decent. RHS but I don't know where to find their stuff. I really like the eddies though because they have 7/16 studs and you use small chevy rockers. Lots of those around and very reasonably priced.
Magnum R/T heads are another good head but they need work to flow any better than a factory magnum head. At least mine needed work...
Flowed a whopping 210 cfm.
the Indy ones are RHS's hughes sells them starting at $879/pr assembled. the other brand is also austrailian made, Enginequest. Hughes sells theirs as the "Iron Ram" starting at $699/pr assembled.
I have essentially a slightly hopped up 318 magnum ('86 roller cam shortblock, magnum heads) and I'd never go back to LA for a bucks down build. I had my roller cam reground by bullet cams with their HR259/316 lobe, hughes 1110 springs, 2.2L mopar retainers, headers and an RPM air gap (I redrilled the heads to LA intake pattern), and it makes great power everywhere.
Last edited by patrick; 11/02/09 08:48 AM.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: HotRodDave]
#513133
07/07/10 08:14 AM
07/07/10 08:14 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,819
Middle of A Field
OrangeProwler
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,819
Middle of A Field
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Quote:
I would get a 2000-02 magnum if I had the choice but they are all very close. The heads I have recently found out have slightly bigger ports not much but a hair, 5cc on the two sets of later heads I have here. Also they had a slightly better cam, the same cam as the R/Ts originally had, the last couple years they all got that slightly revised cam. You should be able to get a good low miles one for $500-700 and bolt on headers and an RPM air-gap intake and make close to 350 HP. The 300 hp crate motor has made 320-325 on several different dynos when it has good headers, and it had a smaller crappy cam and crappy M1 intake. With a re-ground cam and better springs you could get close to 400hp.
I located a 2002 engine with 51k miles for $1,100 complete and I think it's expensive. Anyways, with that being said here is a couple questions I have.
Should I worry about cracked heads?
When you say R/T Cam what do you exactly mean? I was under the impression that all 360 Magnums after 95 had only .410 valve lift camshafts? Should I just throw on an intake, carb, distributor on a Magnum engine and run with it?
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: ewolfe]
#513134
07/07/10 09:19 AM
07/07/10 09:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
This wont be a high dollar build, more like a smaller budget build. There won't be any money for a stroker kit or new heads. We'll have to depend on boneyard heads and stock crank. This is a standard GT dart with 318, nothing special. We would like to go with a roller and magnum heads, but we don't know which year of magnum to look for...which heads would flow best and the like.
Thanks
honestly, don't overlook the 318 magnums, they perform very well, too....a cam and headers will usually get a 3500+ lb dakota into the 13's if they can hook.
heads, flow wise they're all the same...one of the castings is slightly larger, port volume wise (~10cc)...anecdotally, 5.2's seem to be less crack prone than 360's as far as heads go...not sure if it has to do with the tuning of the engines. '96-up don't have EGR, don't know if that comes into play as far as head cracks, either.
as far as the heads, get some 2.2L retainers, use the stock magnum locks, and use hughes #1110 springs. if you plan on getting them redone, get the valve job opened up to 1.9"/1.605", and have a 75 degree throat cut done to open up the bowls. the OEM valve job is very undersized for the valves (others have found that the stock valve job works with LA sized 1.88/1.6 valves). also, open up the pushrod pinch as much as you're comfortable with, and do a little bowl blending.
if you're planning on tearing it down, I would measure how much in the hole the pistons are, and potentially deck the block. if you can find the thin (.028") Mr. Gasket/MP head gaskets, deck the block to .015" in the hole, that'll yield a tight quench. this may limit cam choices as far as lift and/or duration, but if you stay under ~.520" lift at the valve and ~224@.050 duration, I wouldn't expect a problem.
cam, I'd get it reground by bulletcams because I'm cheap. conversely, hughes sells reground cams for $200+refundable core charge. I'd probably get their HER1828AL, or see if they'd custom grind it as an 1818--the magnum exhaust, especially if you do the cleanup I mentioned, flows 75-80% of the intake, and you don't really need a split duration cam, it just increases overlap.
as it is, IIRC somebody on the board has a magnum 360 that he had the cam reground at bullet (was something like 218@.050 and ~480" lift, IIRC) in an A-body with a 4bbl and is running in the high 12's...
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: OrangeProwler]
#513135
07/07/10 09:31 AM
07/07/10 09:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
I would get a 2000-02 magnum if I had the choice but they are all very close. The heads I have recently found out have slightly bigger ports not much but a hair, 5cc on the two sets of later heads I have here. Also they had a slightly better cam, the same cam as the R/Ts originally had, the last couple years they all got that slightly revised cam. You should be able to get a good low miles one for $500-700 and bolt on headers and an RPM air-gap intake and make close to 350 HP. The 300 hp crate motor has made 320-325 on several different dynos when it has good headers, and it had a smaller crappy cam and crappy M1 intake. With a re-ground cam and better springs you could get close to 400hp.
I located a 2002 engine with 51k miles for $1,100 complete and I think it's expensive. Anyways, with that being said here is a couple questions I have.
Should I worry about cracked heads?
When you say R/T Cam what do you exactly mean? I was under the impression that all 360 Magnums after 95 had only .410 valve lift camshafts? Should I just throw on an intake, carb, distributor on a Magnum engine and run with it?
$1100 seems pricey to me. does it include all the accessories? I'd say $700-800 max, I'd see if they'd sell just the long block (minus intake) and let them part out the rest.
there's some argument as far as what the cam specs were, that they may have changed some over the '98-02 time frame...
I was under the impression that the 15HP boost they got (from 230 to 245) in '95 was going to essentially the same exhaust that the SST's had (2.5" muffler to 3" tail, vs. the ~2.25" muffler/tail of the '97-down)
if it runs good, and you pulled the pan and it's clean, I wouldn't be super concerned with cracked heads. IIRC, HotRodDave has seen a number of cracked ones, but none that never actually cause a problem (cracked into the coolant, or caused a burnt valve)
I'd pull the pan, check the rods and main bearings, and if it's good, not even pull the heads...I'd get the cam reground and swap to the hughes valves.
if you do decide to pull the heads, I'd do a little massaging as I suggested in the previous reply...and if you stay below ~.485" lift or so, a cheap valve spring upgrade is to go to your junkyard, and find a couple '94-up GM 3.1 and 3.4L's and pull the springs and retainers off of them.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: OrangeProwler]
#513138
07/09/10 12:13 AM
07/09/10 12:13 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
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Quote:
Thanks again guys. I will keep my eyes out for a deal and Patrick I will be keeping touch. Take care.
hate to do it out here...but clean your mailbox steven! I can't PM you!
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: ewolfe]
#513139
07/09/10 01:03 PM
07/09/10 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,068
Irving, TX
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$1100 is stupid money.
Go to a Pick-n-Pull and snatch a 5.9 magnum for a couple hundred bucks. Sell the 340 to one of the people who can't get enough of them and you'll more than pay for the Magnum.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: feets]
#513140
07/09/10 02:10 PM
07/09/10 02:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
$1100 is stupid money.
Go to a Pick-n-Pull and snatch a 5.9 magnum for a couple hundred bucks. Sell the 340 to one of the people who can't get enough of them and you'll more than pay for the Magnum.
 A junkyard 5.9 magnum is worth a couple hundred bucks, tops. Sell that 340 for double what you spend on the 360 mag. Your buddy won't have the cool factor of a 340 some guys drool over, but bang for your buck a mag 360 with a cheap reground roller cam and magnum heads will outperform that 340.
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: feets]
#513141
07/09/10 02:43 PM
07/09/10 02:43 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,819
Middle of A Field
OrangeProwler
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,819
Middle of A Field
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Quote:
$1100 is stupid money.
Go to a Pick-n-Pull and snatch a 5.9 magnum for a couple hundred bucks. Sell the 340 to one of the people who can't get enough of them and you'll more than pay for the Magnum.
Feets I was thinking the same thing. I would tell them to keep the other crap anyways. I was $300-$400 for non rebuilt unit.
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Re: New build: LA or Magnum??
[Re: Andrewh]
#513143
07/09/10 07:57 PM
07/09/10 07:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 182
NW of Indy
Thackdaddy
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 182
NW of Indy
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Come up to Pick-A-Part in Indy, $169.00 + a $32.00 core charge. Pick-A-Part
Last edited by Thackdaddy; 07/09/10 07:58 PM.
'71 Duster
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