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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#50482
12/17/07 10:11 PM
12/17/07 10:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Fortunatly that you caught it before it was assm. but if it was assm. the first thing I like to do if its not running uo to par is use the GREAT leak down tester.... would have been funny with that pair of heads. Nice job with that little bit of work  
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#50483
12/17/07 10:33 PM
12/17/07 10:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 96
sc
daytona499
member
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member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 96
sc
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Guy's I am a new member to moparts and have been reading alot of very usefull info.I have a tube chassis 1991 dodge daytona with a 499 ci engine.The car started out with a 1971 440 engine with a solid lift 540/560 lift 284/294 cam.I had 850 carb headers ,mopar intake flat top pistons and a 9-1/2 convertor.This is a 2500 lb car with me in it the dana has 4.56 gears with 14 x 32 tires.I had my stock 346 heads re worked and had the machinist install a set of used k800 valve springs.I really thought i should have run mid to upper 6 sec range.I was very disapointed the first pass was 7.31 sec 8th mile at 91 mph i think.It ran 7.31 4 or 5 passes very consistant I went and changed to some elses cam (smaller). I returned to the track and it ran 7.15@ 97 mph passes .I then was told that I just didn't have enough compression.I decided to build a stroker motor a 499 ci .I built this motor and used the same heads ,trans,and convertor.I was told to run a 580/600 lift and 268/278 duration cam.The next trip to the track the car went a 7.03@99mph.I then had a mopar friend watch the car and he suggested getting a better convertor .I had a 8" built and went back to the track the car went a 6.86 @ 100mphafter advancing the timing a few passes later the car run 6.71 @ 102.5 mph.The car is better but shouldn't it be faster.I hate the post is so long but just looking for some good advice please help. Mark
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: daytona499]
#50484
12/17/07 10:44 PM
12/17/07 10:44 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Whats your 60' and what kind of RPMs are you seeing at the launch and when you cross the line. A 850 is small for all your CI And welcome to the jungle
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: daytona499]
#50486
12/17/07 10:58 PM
12/17/07 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Why dont you start antoher post pertaining to your issue BUT, whats the stall of your conveter and why do you launch at such a low rpm, try to launch at peak torque
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: Runner]
#50488
12/18/07 01:22 AM
12/18/07 01:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
375inStroke
Special needs person
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Special needs person
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
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Quote:
my first pass with my raodrunner was 17.20s, thats with a bone stock 170k mile 383 i thought it was a 15 second car.
i then move back to idaho and rebiult the 383 using a dp4b intake a 3310 holley, stock converter mp 484 cam stockish 906 heads with exhaust manifolds and 3.91 gears. the car ran a crappy 15.80 and with a little track side tuning i got it to run 16.0s lol.
over the years i was able to get the car to run [Email]12.49@109[/Email] the long block was never touched, infact in 10 years the valve covers only came off 1 time to be replaced with a mp cast aluminum set. most of the et was gained in getting the combo more suited to the mp cam, and learning a a little about tuning.
i do have a question for ya dwayne. i put a 4 speed in my 68 plymouth. it has a 3310 on it now, with 3.23s gears is a 3310 or a dp the best choice? i drive the car ALOT. its basically my daily driver unless the weather sucks bad.
3.5 seconds with just tuning? Wow.
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: HotRodDave]
#50489
12/18/07 01:41 AM
12/18/07 01:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
375inStroke
Special needs person
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Special needs person
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,545
Seattle, WA
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Quote:
I had a set of heads like that on a 273 and would barely start when I was done putting them on or any time there after. It was a teribly slow even for a 273. I eventually pulled them off when it was backfiring like crazy, from burned valves  , that was when I saw how bad the valve job really was. I slapped on some 318 open chamber heads I had layin around and got tons more power from them than the closed small chamber 273s even though it should have been the other way around 
I have a '69 273 Dart with 110,000 on the odometer, and it's so much faster than the '64 273 GT I have with 72,000 miles on it. The guy I got it from showed me the receipt for the hardened seats and valve job he had put on the heads, and I guess that's why the car is a total turd. It can light the tires up like crazy, but other than that, it's completely gutless, and sucks the gas like crazy. One valve kept getting loose, then I noticed the ball of the adjuster was almost completely gone. I pulled the shaft, and found that rocker had no oil hole on the shaft. Could this have been the original shaft, or did it get switched when the heads were off? I drilled the hole, sanded the shaft and rocker, installed a new adjuster and pushrod, and it's kept the adjustment ever since.
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How 'bout them hemi cars?
[Re: 375inStroke]
#50492
12/18/07 04:15 AM
12/18/07 04:15 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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How about the awful pig 426 hemi cars that abound at car shows and at the track?....ugh...."nothing runs like a hemi"..  66 hemi charger....just a little squeak of the tires upon launch...very underwhelming...might pull high 14's....that vicious hemi power.. detuned race motors...crazy fast...the factory under rated at blah blah blah....  or 67 coronet r/t, fiberglass everything, pretty paint, nice to look at, all out race car with Hemi, tunnel rammed with dual dominators, HUGE roller cam  , 13+compression, loudest car ever...low elevens at 122. Makes me feel bad for them, as I am sure they would like to be running faster too. I have felt the sting of the 17 second time slip, but at least my excuse was the stock head 318 in the 71 charger. Great reminder of how mopars gained the name Slow-Pars. Arguing Caveat: There are many times over as many horrifyingly slow big block chevelles and 3/4 cam camaros out there, but we moparites sure like to gas about how fast our cars are compared to "brand X"
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: 375inStroke]
#50493
12/18/07 04:42 AM
12/18/07 04:42 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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When I first built my car and engine I did alot of assuming. First a buddy gave me a converter and I was told it was probably a 4500 stall, well the first time to the track VW's could EAT me up for the first 150'-200' and then she'd get going (11.4 passes) this is in a 340 with W-2's all the good stuff (ya sure) then I swap out the converter(which stalled about 3000rpm) put in a high stall(5800rpm) and the car picked up to a 10.60. Again ASSUMING that the new W-2 factory built heads were ready to go... well NOT, this went on for the rest of the season running 10.60. When I pulled the Mopar springs off the heads and checked, they were 68# at seat and I'm running a .640 lift roller. From the moment I let the trans brake go I was in valve float to the end of the run. The only saving grace was I was in coil bind the whole run and saved my pistons/engine, thank goodness I had alot of clearance back then.Thats when I found out about assuming about MP, the same new set of MP springs(good to .640 lift) measured the same 68# out of the box  NEVER ASSUME..... CHECK IT
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#50494
12/18/07 04:53 AM
12/18/07 04:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
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On the other hand, if everything is working right even if a little worn, I wouldn't expect big performance gains for quality work and new parts. Something has to be wrong first, and then fixed, to see the gains.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: radar]
#50495
12/18/07 07:46 AM
12/18/07 07:46 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
dustergirl340
Chicken Little
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Chicken Little
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,873
Chicken coop
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Quote:
Cheers to 16 sec. big blocks!
LOL, they make my mild 340 look really good. 
The first time I ran at the track I raced a guy in a 440-6 pack Challenger convertible, he ran high 15's, I felt bad for the guy. 
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Re: How 'bout them hemi cars?
#50497
12/18/07 11:07 AM
12/18/07 11:07 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My first engine was a loosey goosey re-ring and bearing '71 318 with 360 J heads and, I'm sure, around 7.5:1 CR. with a hydraulic grind and solid lifters. Oh yeah 3.23's as well.
Makes me feel good to have run in the 14's @ 95 mph with that POS when I see what some 440's are running.
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Re: How 'bout them hemi cars?
#50498
12/18/07 11:15 AM
12/18/07 11:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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Rebuilt a 360 for a hot street truck I thought  The engine went .030 had near zero deck Keith Black pistons, the heads were late 360 castings which I bowl ported, installed 2.02 valves then were bowl hogged, 3 angle valve job. Cam was a Xtreme Comp 230/236 at 50 near 490 lift. Intake was a Old Torqer Eddy. 750 vacum 2nd ary, 1 5/8 headers, B&M 3k converter. How did it run you ask? I was to emberassed to take it to the track. All I knew was a 95 Full size Dodge Ram 318 with 100K on it was all it wanted. I swiched converters, messed with the timing, cams, intakes, carbs. It just wouldnt run.
Last edited by Rapid_Transit; 12/18/07 11:16 AM.
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Re: 16-17 second 440 combos......
[Re: slantzilla]
#50500
12/18/07 01:34 PM
12/18/07 01:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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I know that this post by Fast68 makes you realize how important the little things are. He is the best at it and I know from my years of Mopars if you just stick to the basics and do that right you can have a good running combo. Its not as much rocket science as some think but doing the simple basic things right to get the most out of a simple combo. That makes anyone proud of what they have. I remember years back my 340 Dart running low 12's and it was a nice basic combo. A buddy put a 396 in a VEGA and was going to clean my clock he says ! We raced at the track and it was a hot day as I was slow in the 12.20's but the et's tell the story: My 340 Dart......12.23 His 396 VEGA......13.30 I loved having him eat his words.  Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/18/07 01:35 PM.
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RandyB 
