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Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit #480819
09/27/09 12:40 AM
09/27/09 12:40 AM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
74_360_Cuda Offline OP
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I am installing my TF-2 kit and have a few questions:

1- Someone have previously removed the accumulator spring... What is the purpose and will that be an Issue with the TF-2 Kit?

2- The shuttle valve primary spring was replaced by a solid pin. What is the purpose and is it OK with TF-2 Kit? If I need to put back a spring, can I use my old TV spring? (very stiff, similar to the one provided with the TF-2 kit)

3- I don't know the year of my TF, I assume 1976 approx... Is it normal that I have no line bypass ball & spring?

Thanks,

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480820
09/27/09 01:41 AM
09/27/09 01:41 AM
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B.C. canada
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turbo jetta Offline
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hey dude i have put together lots of 727's for street and race over the past 20 years and i can tell you that the accum spring is not required at all for any 727 even a stocker, i always through them away all it does is absorb hydrolic shock in the main hyd system and that is the last thing you want to happen it will improve yer shifts and extend clutch life.

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbo jetta] #480821
09/27/09 09:11 AM
09/27/09 09:11 AM
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Southington Ct.
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turbobitt Offline
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THe shuttle valve somehow controls accumulator pressure on 2-1 downshifts, or something like that. Having it blocked will probably firm up the shifts and definetly won't cause any issues with the TF-2 kit.
The Accumulator spring can be removed but should add a steel rod under the piston to eliminate any movment. This would further firm up shifts.
Does it look like it has an aftermarket seperator plate ? Would most likly be gold anidize if it was.
AG


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbo jetta] #480822
09/27/09 11:47 AM
09/27/09 11:47 AM
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Posts: 387
Montreal PQ, Canada
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Quote:

hey dude i have put together lots of 727's for street and race over the past 20 years and i can tell you that the accum spring is not required at all for any 727 even a stocker, i always through them away all it does is absorb hydrolic shock in the main hyd system and that is the last thing you want to happen it will improve yer shifts and extend clutch life.




Thanks!

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480823
09/27/09 11:50 AM
09/27/09 11:50 AM
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Quote:

THe shuttle valve somehow controls accumulator pressure on 2-1 downshifts, or something like that. Having it blocked will probably firm up the shifts and definetly won't cause any issues with the TF-2 kit.
The Accumulator spring can be removed but should add a steel rod under the piston to eliminate any movment. This would further firm up shifts.
Does it look like it has an aftermarket seperator plate ? Would most likly be gold anidize if it was.
AG




Ok for the rod, any suggestion for approx diameter?
It is gold but more like cadmnium plating...
I will take a picture tonight...

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480824
09/27/09 11:57 AM
09/27/09 11:57 AM
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las vegas
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3 inches long...3/8 diameter..


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480825
09/27/09 12:28 PM
09/27/09 12:28 PM
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Southington Ct.
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If the plate is a goldish cad color or anything other than bare steel, it probably has another "kit" in it. Judging by your discription, it probably has a Cheettah power shifts "Shift kit". This kit includes a seperator plate, a blocker rod for the shuttle valve, and a plug to replace the spring on the 1-2 shift control valve(if equiped depending on year). The seperator plate will have no previsions for the accumulator feed hole(s) so the blocker rod in the accumulator may not be nessasary.
Adding a TF-2 kit won't hurt anything. Matter of fact, it will enhance the valve body further by adding the "Shift command" feature and also supplies a different PR spring that the current kit may not have supplied.
If possible, post pictures of the VB showing the seperator plate.

Quote:

Quote:

THe shuttle valve somehow controls accumulator pressure on 2-1 downshifts, or something like that. Having it blocked will probably firm up the shifts and definetly won't cause any issues with the TF-2 kit.
The Accumulator spring can be removed but should add a steel rod under the piston to eliminate any movment. This would further firm up shifts.
Does it look like it has an aftermarket seperator plate ? Would most likly be gold anidize if it was.
AG




Ok for the rod, any suggestion for approx diameter?
It is gold but more like cadmnium plating...
I will take a picture tonight...




1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480826
09/27/09 04:32 PM
09/27/09 04:32 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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I have noticed a P/N stamped on the sparator plate: Pn/N: 1000041-06



Can you tell from this picture if there is feed holes to the accumulator?

Last edited by 74_360_Cuda; 09/27/09 05:35 PM.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480827
09/27/09 04:42 PM
09/27/09 04:42 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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Quote:

it will enhance the valve body further by adding the "Shift command"




I was not planning to install the Shift command since I don't see the point of being able to downshift from 3rd to 1st at any speed... Unless I am missing something?

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480828
09/27/09 04:44 PM
09/27/09 04:44 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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Quote:

and a plug to replace the spring on the 1-2 shift control valve(if equiped depending on year).




I don't think I have the 1-2 plug since there is still a spring there...

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbo jetta] #480829
09/27/09 05:09 PM
09/27/09 05:09 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
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Quote:

hey dude i have put together lots of 727's for street and race over the past 20 years and i can tell you that the accum spring is not required at all for any 727 even a stocker, i always through them away all it does is absorb hydrolic shock in the main hyd system and that is the last thing you want to happen it will improve yer shifts and extend clutch life.




The outer accumulator spring DOES NOT cushion any upshifts. In or out, the upshifts will be the same.

The steel plate pictured does have the feed ports for the accumulator so the only mod that will firm the shifts is the aforementioned blocker rod.

The pressure relief ball and spring was eliminated in late '76 but the imprressions left in the pictured plate look like the VB originally had one.

A 1/4" steel ball dropped into the 1-2 shift control valve spring will block the valve's function, not worthwhile if the accumulator piston is blocked.


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Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit *DELETED* [Re: John_Kunkel] #480830
09/27/09 05:30 PM
09/27/09 05:30 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480831
09/27/09 05:32 PM
09/27/09 05:32 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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Quote:

The pressure relief ball and spring was eliminated in late '76 but the imprressions left in the pictured plate look like the VB originally had one.




Should I re-install one? If so equiped, the TF kit is requesting to drill a bleed hole through the side of the casting... what is this for?


Quote:

A 1/4" steel ball dropped into the 1-2 shift control valve spring will block the valve's function, not worthwhile if the accumulator piston is blocked.




There was one ball there... Should I re-install it? If yes, should I still block the accumulator?

Thanks for the help... very much appreciated!

Last edited by 74_360_Cuda; 09/27/09 05:34 PM.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480832
09/27/09 09:07 PM
09/27/09 09:07 PM
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Quote:


Should I re-install one? If so equiped, the TF kit is requesting to drill a bleed hole through the side of the casting... what is this for?



The bleed hole increases the vent for this check valve. You will notice that the factory vent is only a small area that doesn't seal against the seperator plate. If there isn't a checkball and spring than don't bother. Installing the check ball and spring won't do anything without the hole in the seperator plate.

Quote:


There was one ball there... Should I re-install it? If yes, should I still block the accumulator?




I would put the ball back as removed and block the accumulator anyway. Judging by the picture of the plate, the feed holes look like they were opened up to the max and the accumulator feed holes were there. I wonder who's plate that was.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480833
09/28/09 11:00 PM
09/28/09 11:00 PM
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Montreal PQ, Canada
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Quote:

I wonder who's plate that was.




35 years old car... We will never have the answer to that question!

I must say that I am a bit disapointed about the fact that the valve body has already been modified because it felt stock and the TF-2 will probably not make much of a change...

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480834
09/29/09 12:56 AM
09/29/09 12:56 AM
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Newport, Mi
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Haven't heard anybody mention the line pressure setting. Since going to T/A Cheetah V/B's years ago I haven't messed much with shift kits, but I do remember that we used to get a very firm shifting trans by (1)ditching accumulator spring - no blocker rod (2)increasing line pressure (2 turns ccw IIRC) and (3)installing type "F" fluid. This would get you about 90% of the feel of a good shift kit - for the cost of the fluid, which you have to buy anyways.


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Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: Evil Spirit] #480835
09/29/09 09:19 AM
09/29/09 09:19 AM
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Quote:

Haven't heard anybody mention the line pressure setting. Since going to T/A Cheetah V/B's years ago I haven't messed much with shift kits, but I do remember that we used to get a very firm shifting trans by (1)ditching accumulator spring - no blocker rod (2)increasing line pressure (2 turns ccw IIRC) and (3)installing type "F" fluid. This would get you about 90% of the feel of a good shift kit - for the cost of the fluid, which you have to buy anyways.




Didn't mention line pressure settings because a TF-2 kit is going to be installed (as stated in earlier posts)and it includes a line pressure spring(s) and setting instructons.
AG.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: turbobitt] #480836
09/29/09 11:06 AM
09/29/09 11:06 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Haven't heard anybody mention the line pressure setting. Since going to T/A Cheetah V/B's years ago I haven't messed much with shift kits, but I do remember that we used to get a very firm shifting trans by (1)ditching accumulator spring - no blocker rod (2)increasing line pressure (2 turns ccw IIRC) and (3)installing type "F" fluid. This would get you about 90% of the feel of a good shift kit - for the cost of the fluid, which you have to buy anyways.




Didn't mention line pressure settings because a TF-2 kit is going to be installed (as stated in earlier posts)and it includes a line pressure spring(s) and setting instructons.
AG.




Yeah, I'm not up on what's done in the kits - it seems like all the different makers of them have different ideas on what to do. So I just do the quick and cheap mods that I mentioned for a stocker, or toss in an A&A or T/A V/Body on the H/P or race ones. It's always a crap-shoot once someone has been in there on what was done - sometimes it's better to just start over with a fresh V/B if you don't do a lot of trans work to be able to recognize what has been modified.


Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: 74_360_Cuda] #480837
09/29/09 01:08 PM
09/29/09 01:08 PM
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Quote:

I am installing my TF-2 kit and have a few questions:

1- Someone have previously removed the accumulator spring... What is the purpose and will that be an Issue with the TF-2 Kit?

2- The shuttle valve primary spring was replaced by a solid pin. What is the purpose and is it OK with TF-2 Kit? If I need to put back a spring, can I use my old TV spring? (very stiff, similar to the one provided with the TF-2 kit)

3- I don't know the year of my TF, I assume 1976 approx... Is it normal that I have no line bypass ball & spring?

Thanks,




What i do when i got a tranny where is worked on before is bring it back to as stock as possible or take a other valvebody and then install the TF-2 kit, or any other kit.

I just try to start with a stock tranny and them follow the instructions in the improver kit

Re: Need help with my 727 torqueflite & TF-2 Kit [Re: Evil Spirit] #480838
09/29/09 01:50 PM
09/29/09 01:50 PM
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turbobitt Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Haven't heard anybody mention the line pressure setting. Since going to T/A Cheetah V/B's years ago I haven't messed much with shift kits, but I do remember that we used to get a very firm shifting trans by (1)ditching accumulator spring - no blocker rod (2)increasing line pressure (2 turns ccw IIRC) and (3)installing type "F" fluid. This would get you about 90% of the feel of a good shift kit - for the cost of the fluid, which you have to buy anyways.




Didn't mention line pressure settings because a TF-2 kit is going to be installed (as stated in earlier posts)and it includes a line pressure spring(s) and setting instructons.
AG.




Yeah, I'm not up on what's done in the kits - it seems like all the different makers of them have different ideas on what to do. So I just do the quick and cheap mods that I mentioned for a stocker, or toss in an A&A or T/A V/Body on the H/P or race ones. It's always a crap-shoot once someone has been in there on what was done - sometimes it's better to just start over with a fresh V/B if you don't do a lot of trans work to be able to recognize what has been modified.




It depends on what you want out of your shift kit. The TF-2 kit is engineered to give you the beest comprimise between shift feel and all around drivability. This is why they don't disable the accumulator and give you some options on feed hole sizes. If you are looking for maximum shift firmness than I would stick with what you have and continue with the TF-2 kit.
Talloring the shift kit for your needs is no big deal. Blocking the accumulator, ball in the 1-2 shift control valve, blocker rod in the shuttle valve are OK to add as long as hard shifting all the time is what you want. If you want it to progressivly get harder as throttle angle is increassed than dont block the accumulator, take the rod out of the shuttle valve, take the ball bearing out of the 1-2 shift control valve and continue with the TF-2 kit.
AG.


1970 Challenger w/572 Hemi street car and my pride and joy. 1986 T-Type with 272 Stage 2 Buick V6 engine - True 8 second street car. Just updated the engine and put down 928 HP @ 35# boost to the ground on chasis dyno. 1976 Cee Bee Avenger Jet Boat - 460 Ford powered.
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