I'm considering running the 509 cam in my 440 and wanted to know if anyone has experience with both 509 cams, the improved streetability version and the original. What sort of differences were there in street driving. Things like fuel consumption, throttle response, idle, brake vacumm etc. My 440 is 30 over, cast crank, ly rods, l2355 trw pistons with the block machined for zero deck height. Heads are ported 452's with 2.19 valves, torker manifold and I will probably use either a 750 or 800cfm edelbrock carb. Car is going to be mainly a street car but I want a tuff sounding 440 that runs well on the street. Anyone with experience with either of these two cams or any other recommended hydraulic, feel free to give your opinions

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i had 1 20 years ago in a 383 street car, then put that motor in my race car and really liked it.i took the 3.91 gear out one time and put in a 3.23 but at 35mph it felt like it had a miss, where the cam was trying to lope. so i put 4.30 in it. i shimmed my rocker gear up for near zero lash and run it hard.

You will get everybody and their brother saying don't use this cam.
There are newer designs that make more power and more importantly more low speed torque and vacuum.
That being said I still like this cam with the proper equipment around it.It likes 4.10 gears(to cover up the nonexistent torque below 3000rpm),a 4 speed or 3500 stall,and I would run it with an rpm(dual plane) intake.I would lose the torker intake on this one.
The cam is old school and can be bettered but it does work if you match the componets to it's intended rpm range(3000-6200)
edit:I have no experience with the wider lsa version.The original will drink gas and not be happy below 3000rpm.

couldn't have worded it better myself.

I would look into Comp, Lunati, or Crower cams.

My old man's 3800-3900 pound '69 Roadrunner has gone as fast as 12.30's - 12.40's with the older version .509 MP grind. It has the TRW six pack replacement (2266?) pistons, worked heads with 2.14(I)-1.88(E). Eddy Performer RPM intake and an Eddy AVS style 800 with the manual choke. It also has 3.23's. It idles at 900 all day long. It now has the steel hood in place of the six pack fiberglass hood. Still pulls 12.50's-12.60's. It seems to need some converter. My father's converter is an old "J" converter. I think it goes past 3500 before any real movement happens off the starting line. Fuel milage is probably around 8-9. But that cam and lifters has been in there for think nine years now. The long block also just celebrated its 20th birthday.

Michael

I have the old one (108 lsa) in my 9:1 493. E-heads M1 Holley throttle body EFI. It made over 500 ft/lbs from 2000 to 5000 rpm. Idles at 1100 with 8-10" vac in gear and sounds tough as all get out.

In my 4800 lb New Yorker it ran a traction limited 13.92 at 100.66 thru the muffs with an off the shelf 3000 stall TA conv and a 2.76 gear. That's the good such as it is. The EFI is not happy with it at all below 2500 +/-. With 76 deg of overlap there is so much exhaust reversion it never sees the same a/f twice in a row at part throttle. I believe the wider 112 lsa would solve a lot of that. All that being said your combo is 50+ cubes short of mine so it will just make all that low speed stuff worse unless you are willing to go with 3.91 or deeper gears and a big converter. Just for a comparison a buddy of mine has a 74 Challenger with a 452 headed 440 with the 484 cam and it runs 12.90's with a 3.23 gear and it has that "tough" sounding idle too.

Kevin

Pros: nasty sounding idle, good power at mid-high speeds, works with all stock valvetrain components (if you use Hemi springs); will clear most pistons if the engine doesn't have a lot of milling.

Cons: narrow power band; requires more stall speed than other cams which will run as hard.

I'd run one in an engine I didn't have an investment in, if I already had it; I wouldn't spend money to get one. The cam is dollar-for-dollar the most significant piece which determines how your existing set of parts will run. I wouldn't try to save $50-100 on the cam after buying pistons, machine work, etc.



-Bill

The old style will really make great power degree it at 102 and 3000 + stall and it will rock and roll! Best with RPM performer will work with anything with a 4000 stall!!
some of these old cams are great just not for the 75% that only think they want a fast car when they really want a ultra mild street car

Have used the cam in relatively "stock" 440's back in the day. Worked great EXCEPT it does not provide adequate vacuum for power brakes. Brakes worked fine from 100mph to 20mph, but had no power assist from 20mph to stop!

Now companies like SSBC offer electric vacuum pumps for cars with larger cams and power brakes.

I had slight power brake issues but recurved the dizzy to have all in by 2000 and idle at 1000 in gear and mine was fine but you could not pump the brakes coming to a stop or you used up all your vacuum. then I used a 533 320 duration still had brakes idle around 1200 in gear then an ultradyne solid 263/271 @ .050 same thing now a roller 272/282 @ .050 .696/.717 lift still run the power brakes and idle in gear 1200 to 1300??

as said above there will be power brake vacuum problems with the original tight lobe cam.
they do make great power.my satellite has run as quick as 11.35@119.01.
my car is a daily driver,i run a vacuum pump for the brakes,it idles at about 800 rpm in gear.it likes a good converter,32/3500+,3.9+ gears.yes it is soft under about 2800rpm but that is good as i run a 235/75/15 street tyre.
fuel consumptiom - pffft - you've got 440ci what do you want ? you sound like a hotrodder

Tex

My buddy had his Duster out to LaPeer today. He lost a lobe off of the old school .508 smallblock MP cam and changed to the smallblock version of the Comp cam listed above. It's a .030 over 340 with trw 10.5:1 pistons, 308 casting heads with 2.02 valves and a bowl hog, no porting. TorquerII intake, tricked out 750hp, 3500 stall. Car went a best of 11.99 @113 mph with the old cam. Did what we could with jetting and timing, but the best it went was 12.06 @109.

I still believe that cam gets a bad wrap from people who misunderstood the designers intentions. I've used it numerous times in big and small blocks, and when run with the right intake, converter and gear combos it's still hard to beat.

As was said that cam will rock & roll with the right combo behind it. It likes alot of quick ign advance and and the cam set in the 102 to 104 area. And of course you need the gear and converter to make it work. As for gas milage.............if you worry about that you are in the wrong hobby. Ron

So it likes to be installed at 102 or 104? How much of a difference will that make compared to 108? How much does it depend on the combination?

I believe mopar recommends installing it at 106.Advancing it to 102-104 will increase cylinder pressure helping the power band come in sooner.It will also help the idle a tad.

Mopar says 108