And after moving two cougars and an old coupe its heading home.

These are great points. My car (A12) has the cleanest frames and floorpans you can imagine. The odo' showed 37K miles on it when I purchased. The 2000 AZ state emissions inspection sticker shows the car at 37K. I would believe that mileage compared to actual body condition. BUT... I have no way to actually "prove it". BTW, I just turned over 39K+ this summer. "Is it real, or is it Memorex".....

My A-12 Bee had 6,616 miles showing on the OD. Pedals had little wear, window felts are perfect, lots of things that would make someone believe it was original miles. However, my car got swatted in the front a LONG time ago and sat- so it needed a full resto. Motor/tranny believed to be removed when the car was damaged. It was raced in Oklahoma- but no one seems to remember it. Tried a title search in OK- came up empty- that was the end of the line as far as trying to find anything out about my car. Only rust was a small hole under drivers feet- and a bit of rust on the bottom of the quarters- poor storage damage- I think. Every spot weld is beautiful- and only a couple pits in the trunk. These cars rusted way to easily for it to be 106,616- but I suppose the speedo could have been unhooked too. My car was by no means a survivor- it needed it all- but still some signs that it may have had low miles.Tking her out for the last run tonight- before the snow flies-

My car had 1291 on the odo when I bought it. Course that was an odo set to zero when the car was restored by an owner three before me. Word was it had 55,000 on the odo at restore but who knows what's real when the car had more owners than a lady of the night has dates.

If the car was sold origianlly in Idaho then I am the 17th owner.

Hey!! Maybe I should start a "who has the A12 with most previous owners thread".

BTW, odo read 4,244 when I put her to sleep for this winter.

Here is a couple of lower mileage A12 cars from the prairies.

The Runner has around 39,000 miles and was bought off the original owner back in the early seventies. This car was sold new in Saskatchewan. This car still runs 2 original Goodyears on it.

The Bee has 46,000 miles and was sold new in Alberta. Both owners are very good guys.

Both cars are bench 4 speed coupes with the Runner having all original power train and the Bee lost its power train early in life.

I was looking for the article, but can't locate it.
..... there is the "Grotheer" A12 Road Runner, what was the mileage on that when it was in MCG a few years ago?

Sweet photo Harry, I like the orange car for some reason.

Dave, that car is a twin to yours.

This is the car that got caught by the new owner as the local workers were doing burnouts in the parking lot of the Chrysler Headquarters in Windsor as he was arriving to pick up his brand new and untouched A12 Road Runner.

The original owner had left the prairies to pick up his car in May of '69 and arrived a day early to pickup his car at the Chrysler Headquarters.

Apparently he saw what was going on in the parking lot, but didn't think much of it until he later found out that was his car the local boys were pounding on in the parking lot.

The story goes that things got pretty heated between the new owner and the Headquarters and some compromises were made and the car was then driven back by the new owner to the prairies some 1500 miles.

To my knowledge he still runs original Goodyears on the rear, but is not taken out often. The owner had so much foresight on buying NOS parts for Mopars back in the seventies that he has enough original parts that he is building a clone. I have seen his many of his NOS parts, along with carbs, air cleaner assembly, hood, rads etc. and the list goes on. A nice guy on top of that as well.

I think that you really and truely know if a car has 6K or 106K! I think that some people may want to believe that their car may be ultra low miles! With A12 car in particular I think that there is a good chance that there are a lot of low mile cars out there. They were raced, they were abused and broken in their ealy lives. You must remember the average 18-19 year old that bought these cars new bought them to beat the snot out of and usually did! They (A12's) were not so highly prized when new! Most of the original owners that I have spoken with did race their A12 when it was new, but most also had a second car. So I believe that A12's by nature were not generally daily drivers, but toys. Not all of coarse! I think that the only way (other than obvious condition) to verify a low mileage car is to speak to previous owners if at all possible. I did that when I purchased my car in 93. The condition of the car indicated that 44K was original and speaking to the owners and doing a title search ended with my belief that it was.
KIDSIXPACK
My Name is Steve and I like Bees!

Steve, I think you are bang on. The ultra low mileage cars usually have some history to them that can be traced or verified.

Real low mileage cars are easier to determine than a 50,000 mile car IMO. The real low mile cars usually tend to have very few owners and in many cases have some very good paperwork.

A good example of great background and history is the Bee found I believe in Michigan last year. That might not have been typical, but not unusual.

The Runner with supposedly 3400 miles that I am going to look at in Tennessee in the next few months apparently has the original title, keys and broadcast sheet.

Back in the ninties I had a '68 RS/SS L78 Camaro with only 28,000 miles on it which isn't real low mileage, but still good. It only had 2 owners before me and each owner passed along the bill of sale, title, original keys, protecto plate etc. and I think that happens a lot with low mile cars.

Also how about project 6 pack, how many miles does that RR have.
I will see if I have the mag that the Grotheer A12 is in.
That is only if the photo guy doesn't get to it first, right Mike???

That's the same steering wheel I have in my coronet deluxe. Didn't know you could get it in a chicken.

Hey look it's Don's Un---------------------------Bent Lynch Road Fender Tag....ooops getting side tracked there David, and besides that's another thread.....later

MikeR

JD, maybe reread my post.

"The real low mile cars usually tend to have very few owners and in many cases have some very good paperwork."

The key information here is the paperwork. I have owned a number of cars that have had a lot of paperwork and that includes everything from an owners manuals with recorded service work to oil changes, tuneups, brake work, exhaust work as so on. Each piece of paperwork usually indicates the date and the mileage on the car.

In the case of my '69 SC/Rambler, I not only have all the original paperwork including the bill of sale, certicard and owners manual, but all the receipts for work done during its life which indicate dates and mileages. In the case of my Runner, I have documentation showing the mileage back some 25 years.

Having been around these cars probably as long as you, I would suggest that having all the original paperwork for a car along with other documentation would indicate that the previous owner/owners kept well documented records of dates and mileages for the car.

Certainly original keys, protecto plates and bills of sale don't document anything, but they do indicate that the owner probably has a lot more additional backup information to do that. I have had cars with all the original keys, brochures, documentation and so on, but along with that, all the service records.

To suggest "that the lower the mileage the less proof or evidence will be available", what do you base that on? I would rather deal with one or two owners on a low mileage car than 15 owners of a higher mileage car.

As far as self certifying a cars mileage from your own inspection and discovery to register a new title in your name, that may work for the state or provincial government body, but certainly wouldn't carry any weight when it comes
authenticating a cars mileage.

Inspections or service receipts with dates and mileages are as good as it gets for me.

Mike, I know you're UNBEATABLE when it comes to pictures and stuff so I didn't even try. I am at work so I would not have found the article till 8am anyways.
I just wanted to test your skills out and see how fast you could find it.

p.s. is that trunk splatter paint on that unbent fender tag??? (Looks like white overspray)
Later David