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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: Boise Chall]
#471279
09/19/09 06:46 AM
09/19/09 06:46 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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yep,I got flamed  cause boise chall has a "over heating" problem and I suggested the 1/2 azz "spring in the hose" bandaid fix.. you best go pull that spring back out and warm it up some,it not overheating enuff with it in there  say what you want  I have seen them suck closed and have had that ride under the hood I wont mention cavitation with mixed matched a/c pullys amd non a/c water pumps and the way it eats the alum wp housing up at sustained high rpms either  the shut up option... 
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: Boise Chall]
#471280
09/19/09 06:51 AM
09/19/09 06:51 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,124
Hunt Valley, Maryland
1fastrunner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,124
Hunt Valley, Maryland
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Not rying to blow this out of proportion, but he, and many other members were trying to help you. Not actually working on your problem in person isn't the best case scenario. I'd be very thankful they all took the time to help someone they probably never met, and maybe never will. I'm just saying don't burn any bridges, you might need to get over another problem down the road. Jim 
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: 1fastrunner]
#471283
09/19/09 10:02 AM
09/19/09 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
Boise Chall
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 659
Boise Idaho
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Quote:
Not rying to blow this out of proportion, but he, and many other members were trying to help you. Not actually working on your problem in person isn't the best case scenario. I'd be very thankful they all took the time to help someone they probably never met, and maybe never will.
I'm just saying don't burn any bridges, you might need to get over another problem down the road.
Jim
I understand that and I let it pass by a few times but supercuda was very persistant and would not let it go. Every time I would post he had the same comment. In my bait post " Massive overheating problem" I said thank you to everybody that helped me I was also trying to get this issue away from this thread so I didn't hijack it.
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: Boise Chall]
#471284
09/19/09 10:30 AM
09/19/09 10:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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I was told by the guy at the parts store that they did away with the springs because they had issues with them working their way into the water pump and damaging it. That kinda tells me that they either didn't need to be there, wern't needed on newer vehicles or solved the collapsing problem another way. It makes sense to me that if the hose is collapsing then the pump might be flowing too much, or the hose is old. A pump can't push water if there's a restriction on the inlet side and can't pull water if there's a restriction on the outlet side i would think but i'm no expert.
Last edited by MNobody; 09/19/09 10:43 AM.
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#471287
09/19/09 01:36 PM
09/19/09 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
Like putting your hand over a vacuum cleaner hose, the forces on the hose are FAR greater than with the hand off.
And the fact that the radiator hose has a much larger area for a vacuum to work on means it doesn't take much to suck it flat... Think about it, you can typically squeeze a radiator hose flat pretty easily, a heater no so much...
Also another thing to consider, there will be no flow when the thermostat is closed so if the engine gets spun up while cold & collapses the hose during that condition now the hose has been weakened slightly so next time it will collapse easier... The spring could have prevented it collapsing the first time...
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#471288
09/19/09 01:57 PM
09/19/09 01:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 247
DuPont, Washington
DZJim
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 247
DuPont, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Like putting your hand over a vacuum cleaner hose, the forces on the hose are FAR greater than with the hand off.
And the fact that the radiator hose has a much larger area for a vacuum to work on means it doesn't take much to suck it flat... Think about it, you can typically squeeze a radiator hose flat pretty easily, a heater no so much...
Also another thing to consider, there will be no flow when the thermostat is closed so if the engine gets spun up while cold & collapses the hose during that condition now the hose has been weakened slightly so next time it will collapse easier... The spring could have prevented it collapsing the first time...
We're all here to help on another...right?
This got me thinking some more. Vacuum cleaner; I have an old Electrolux canister type. Works good. If I put my hand over the exhaust and stop it, the suction decreases and stops. The impeller/fan/whatchamaycallit is stalled. If there aint't no place for the fluid to go, there aint no fluid gonna move and ain't no hose gonna collapse.
I believe that the thermostat closed simply directs the coolant bypassing the radiator, and does not stop flow through the engine. The water pump impeller would have to be stalled for flow to cease. Ain't like Mopar designed it that way...
My
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#471289
09/19/09 04:24 PM
09/19/09 04:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I held off putting my system together after reading a few of these - then I headed here to Orlando to take my wife to Sea World; she's in the shower so I only have a minute to reply here. I'm glad I waited to get the spring before I attached the lower hose and filled up the system. For NO other reason other than NEVER having doubt or to wonder if I do end up with a overheating problem, that if its because I didn't have spring. Sorry you got flamed and I brought up "old memories" in here - I do THAT enough with the wife! 
I'll be back tonight after Sea World to see how things are going in here!
Thanks everyone!Quote:
Please post smaller pictures!!! 
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: DZJim]
#471290
09/19/09 08:19 PM
09/19/09 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
We're all here to help on another...right?
This got me thinking some more. Vacuum cleaner; I have an old Electrolux canister type. Works good. If I put my hand over the exhaust and stop it, the suction decreases and stops. The impeller/fan/whatchamaycallit is stalled.
If there aint't no place for the fluid to go, there aint no fluid gonna move and ain't no hose gonna collapse.
Actually the impeller is still spinning at the same speed.. But airflow has ceased.. A vacuum & a typical automotive water pump have something in common, they are what is refered to as "Non-positive displacement pumps" So movement of air/water can stop & it doesn't damage the pump but it leaves a positive pressure after the pump & a negative pressure before the pump... the hose is under a vacuum & while a vacuum cleaner hose doesn't collapse in a radial fashion due to the ribbed design adding considerable resistance to collapse... But the hose does collapse in a linear way... IE the hose gets shorter as the coils pull together...
I believe that the thermostat closed simply directs the coolant bypassing the radiator, and does not stop flow through the engine. The water pump impeller would have to be stalled for flow to cease. Ain't like Mopar designed it that way...
My
Believe what you what, the thermostat stops water flow... While working for Ford I actually was involved in some testing on Police vehicles that were blowing up heater cores at a rate of one every couple weeks... Eventually we found out the officers were taking the cars out stone cold manually selecting first gear & winding the crap out off the cars to see what would break.. The heater core was the weak point & while the engine was cold at 4500 rpm you would see 75+ psi in the heater core... Brass Cores would take that, aluminum would not..
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#471291
09/20/09 07:33 AM
09/20/09 07:33 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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the thermo is by passed at the intake and pump and will flow x amount of water with it closed that is so it does not cavitate while cold,the water is moveing you can run into probs with the intake blocked, when cold and at high rpms how many vanes on the pump and a/c or non a/c pullys plays a part also 8 vanes for the larger non a/c pully 6 vanes for the smaller a/c pully a/c pully on a 8 vane pump can cause it to suck a hose flat or cavitate at high rpms they are matched to pully speed and vanes to move the same x amount of water at idle large pully turns slower and has 8 vanes smaller pull turns faster with 6 vanes a thermo does help direct water to the smaller head passages and helps direct flow the intake by pass hose is often thought of as a way of warming the engine up to temp faster...which it does...but its to let water flow with out it cavitating while the thremo is closed..or like said when cold and being reved up I have found pieces of the spring "coil" in as far as the t-cover or wraped around the impeller also also have changed some alum t-covers from cavitation eating the alum away enuff to leak,and seen them leak water into crank case cavitation damage looks like casting flaws that are bubble shaped pocket/holes that have been eat into the alum look at some off a mercruzer off shore boat engines that turn 7000+ rpms for sustained lenghts of time more to it than pumping water with restrictions in the system got spring?
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: WyleECoyote]
#471292
09/20/09 12:58 PM
09/20/09 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336
Ball Ground, Georgia
Dixie
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,336
Ball Ground, Georgia
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For whatever it's worth to this conversation, I asked the same question about the date coded radiator hoses I sell. Most of the lowers don't have springs. I asked the vendor I get them from why the lowers didn't have springs. He told me the manufacturer of the hoses said they were made of stronger material and didn't need a spring like the older ones. I don't know if that's correct or not. I am of the opinion that a spring is a good safety measure. But, lots of good info here. Sometimes "band-aid" fixes have to work until you find time to diagnose and fix a problem. Sometimes you never find that problem or the time. Thanks, Randy
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Re: Lower Radiator Hose - to spring or not to spring?
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#471295
09/20/09 08:48 PM
09/20/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 671
Wisconsin USA
Bill MeLater
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 671
Wisconsin USA
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Quote:
yes,the hoses are made of a "better rubber" is the most common answer I have got about that ? also..
"Better rubber" Wish someone would have invented this 14 years ago... 
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