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sheet metal intakes.. #469031
09/15/09 02:00 PM
09/15/09 02:00 PM
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Deerfield, Ohio
70dusterjohn Offline OP
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How thick of steel do they use for this.. Where can I get some flanges for a big block..

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: 70dusterjohn] #469032
09/15/09 02:05 PM
09/15/09 02:05 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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John,most sheet metal intake are of aluminum construction.ie: Hogans,Wilson and others.Sheet metal is just a general refrence term.

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: 70dusterjohn] #469033
09/15/09 02:30 PM
09/15/09 02:30 PM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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yes most are aluminum but steel can be used. i've built one with 3/16 steel flanges and 18-20 gauge sheet to make the runners. yes its tedious but if your playing around there is nothing wrong with actually using steel. plus you can mig weld it, although tig works better and if really your in a bind i even saw one person braze it. he then had it powder coated and you couldn't even tell.


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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Jerry] #469034
09/15/09 03:53 PM
09/15/09 03:53 PM
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Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

yes most are aluminum but steel can be used. i've built one with 3/16 steel flanges and 18-20 gauge sheet to make the runners. yes its tedious but if your playing around there is nothing wrong with actually using steel. plus you can mig weld it, although tig works better and if really your in a bind i even saw one person braze it. he then had it powder coated and you couldn't even tell.




Absolutely no good reason that I can think of to use steel.

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: BobR] #469035
09/15/09 05:48 PM
09/15/09 05:48 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Why would anyone want to use steel?Aluminum is so easy to form,weights less.and dissipates heat better as well as being easier to machine.Can it be done? Sure,so can a radiater.Is it practial? No,you never see and aftermarket manifold either cast or fabricated from steel

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: B G Racing] #469036
09/15/09 10:04 PM
09/15/09 10:04 PM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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for us that may build one or two manifolds in our lifetime to have something different and dont weld aluminum, its much cheaper to use steel, plus it lets me play at home with different ideas and fitments etc. sure if i was to go into manufacturing professional intake i would also make them aluminum, but they are not easier to make than an actual steel intake. lighter is also debatable because you have to use thicker aluminum. sure can they be lighter, of course, will they always be? no. again, can you make them out of steel yes. why would you? because you can and can't afford $4000 for a custom hogan or wilson intake.


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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Jerry] #469037
09/15/09 11:21 PM
09/15/09 11:21 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Stanton Offline
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Steel ... why waste the time and effort on something that weighs a ton and likely won't work. Better to buy a used aluminum intake that'll be lighter and work better. Put your steel fabricating skills to use somewhere better suited to them ... suspension, frame, etc.. Ya wanna play with steel ... build your kid a gokart or a lawn ornament for the wife!

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Stanton] #469038
09/15/09 11:34 PM
09/15/09 11:34 PM
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DFW
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mr_340 Offline
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I seem to remember the High & Mighty intake made of steel tubing and rubber hoses. Here is a picture of it at the Hemi Reunion last year.

5485426-Ohio2008156.jpg (214 downloads)

Floyd Lippencott IV
Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: mr_340] #469039
09/15/09 11:40 PM
09/15/09 11:40 PM
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DFW
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mr_340 Offline
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I think the guy on the right built that intake. Somewhere I have a picture of a crazy intake he built for his street car (had a 392 in it).

5485435-Ohio2008154.jpg (161 downloads)

Floyd Lippencott IV
Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Jerry] #469040
09/15/09 11:52 PM
09/15/09 11:52 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

for us that may build one or two manifolds in our lifetime to have something different and dont weld aluminum, its much cheaper to use steel, plus it lets me play at home with different ideas and fitments etc. sure if i was to go into manufacturing professional intake i would also make them aluminum, but they are not easier to make than an actual steel intake. lighter is also debatable because you have to use thicker aluminum. sure can they be lighter, of course, will they always be? no. again, can you make them out of steel yes. why would you? because you can and can't afford $4000 for a custom hogan or wilson intake.


Jerry,I checked out your site,very impressive.With all that capability and access to the state of the art tooling,Cnc and etc. I can only question why you would even consider something as unconventional and outmolded as a steel manifold.We have built our own inhouse manifolds as well as supplied custom made ones from Tim Hogan for way far less than the dollars you have mentioned.The finish work to radius and blend a steel manifold would in it's self negate any cost savings.As advanced as your company is I would still question your logic and thought process for entertaining such a project"steel intake manifolds" weather it be one or 1000.To anyone that wants to try good luck.

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: B G Racing] #469041
09/16/09 05:57 AM
09/16/09 05:57 AM
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Charleston
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sixpackgut Offline
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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: sixpackgut] #469042
09/16/09 07:49 AM
09/16/09 07:49 AM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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THe reason i did it was for prototyping. i didn't want to spend money on something that wasn't going to work and had to be modded lots of times. once the design is finalized i would definitely make them out of aluminum. right now i'm currently working on a manifold to mount an eaton m90 or m112 with intercooler to a small block mopar. will it work? i don't know. is it worth doing all the cad work? nope. this is something i can mock up in my garage late at night and make changes as i go. not to mention steel is cheaper than aluminum. the flanges i machined on my cnc. i made a fixture plate to make big block and small block flanges and can do one set at a time. i figure i can make them out of steel or aluminum or titanium if i chose later. right now the runners are made out of exhaust tubing so the interface to the manifold is plenum is round and then it goes rectangular at the flange end. the plenum is made from 18 gauge steel that i can cut with my harbor freight plasma torch and i can tig it together with my harbor freight tig welder. its more of a testiment to show what can be done in a garage on a budget. and yes even though i have cncs at my disposal my primary business is not automotive parts otherwise i'd be broke and out of business.

so for the little guy working out of his garage without the formula one budget i say use steel. for anyone else with the skills to work in aluminum good for you. i hope to acquire these skills when i get some time.


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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Jerry] #469043
09/16/09 08:59 AM
09/16/09 08:59 AM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Jerry,I see your point and respect your methodology.We have in the past made proto type mock-up with cardboard and duct tape and after much observation and changes we constructed a actual proto type from aluminum.Flowed and tested and made changes.After all that we found it better cost and time wise to consult with a manifold builer like Tim Hogen and others and let them build the manifold to our requirements.Now we only built a one of one specific manifold for a special application and the rest we just buy a Hogen,Wilson or others and modify it.

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: B G Racing] #469044
09/16/09 10:36 AM
09/16/09 10:36 AM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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i agree that for an all out points car or someone that is racing every weekend i would pony up the cash for a hogan. but when your at that point you've exhausted all cast manifolds and need something different.

for a guy asking if he can use steel i would assume that its a garage build just because he can. i agree that professional shop should use aluminum, there are alot of advantages.


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Troy MI 48083
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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Jerry] #469045
09/16/09 11:12 AM
09/16/09 11:12 AM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

i agree that for an all out points car or someone that is racing every weekend i would pony up the cash for a hogan. but when your at that point you've exhausted all cast manifolds and need something different.

for a guy asking if he can use steel i would assume that its a garage build just because he can. i agree that professional shop should use aluminum, there are alot of advantages.


Jerry,I know John and just wanted to clarify for him that fabricated aluminum manifolds are commonally referred to as "sheet metal manifolds" and I don't think John had that consecpt in his mind so that he didn't get in over his head in a project with out all the information.

Post deleted by Defbob [Re: B G Racing] #469046
09/16/09 11:17 AM
09/16/09 11:17 AM

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Re: sheet metal intakes.. #469047
09/16/09 11:32 AM
09/16/09 11:32 AM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

There are many different metals that can be made into sheet metal, such as aluminum, brass, copper, steel, tin, nickel and titanium. For decorative uses, important sheet metals include silver, gold, and platinum.





Your correct Fred,sheet metal is just a sheet of some sort of metal.John was applying the terminology to an intake manifold,thus we can all "assume" that he needed to be guided to correct material and application.What would a 4X8 sheet of platinum be worth?

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: B G Racing] #469048
09/16/09 06:51 PM
09/16/09 06:51 PM
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Illinois
Hurst390 Offline
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AMC intake prototype by herman lewis for his new heads..


80 AMX Barry Allen 420 AMC Iron Heads Jerico 4-speed Advanced clutch 2950# street legal 5.97 115.73 Coles county dragway 10/28/07 9.42 142.96 best in 08(6.00 115.8 1/8) 5.97 116.2 in 09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXSr201-tmA
Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Hurst390] #469049
09/16/09 07:12 PM
09/16/09 07:12 PM
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Invisible Intake!!!!

And Aluminum can be mig welded....got a guy at work that can make Mig look like it was tigged.....didn't know alum could be migged with ordinary wire feed welder with just a couple simple accesories different rollers...straight argon...teflon liner.


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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: instigator] #469050
09/16/09 07:25 PM
09/16/09 07:25 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Invisible Intake!!!!

And Aluminum can be mig welded....got a guy at work that can make Mig look like it was tigged.....didn't know alum could be migged with ordinary wire feed welder with just a couple simple accesories different rollers...straight argon...teflon liner.


Absolutely,at the construction company we mig weld all our aluminum structures,brackets and even truck bodys and accessories.For our race car shop we still like to tig weld.

Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: B G Racing] #469051
09/16/09 07:35 PM
09/16/09 07:35 PM
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Warren, MI
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Jerry Offline
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again yes thats true that you can mig weld aluminum, but making it pretty is really tough and takes alot of practice, i spent a bunch of money on my spool gun and argon tank and teflon liner only to make a birdsnest everytime. again not that its not doable, but the home guy probably won't. not to mention you cant do aluminum with a 110V mig. you need at least a 220 v mig so you can get enough heat into the aluminum being welded.


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Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: BobR] #469052
09/16/09 07:36 PM
09/16/09 07:36 PM
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organ
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maximum entropy Offline
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Quote:



Absolutely no good reason that I can think of to use steel.


you just gave me a reason. thanks.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: sheet metal intakes.. [Re: Hurst390] #469053
09/16/09 09:23 PM
09/16/09 09:23 PM
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mr_340 Offline
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Quote:

AMC intake prototype by herman lewis for his new heads..





That looks just the thing for flowing an intake using water instead of air. I suppose you could use a smoke generator to visualize the air flow. It would be interesting to see the flow in the plenum area.

Hemi Fred needs to make a cast gold intake for his Duster. Or just plate it and tell everyone it's solid.


Floyd Lippencott IV
Post deleted by Defbob [Re: mr_340] #469054
09/16/09 11:33 PM
09/16/09 11:33 PM

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Re: sheet metal intakes.. #469055
09/17/09 01:38 PM
09/17/09 01:38 PM
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I found that picture of Hoover's intake on his Plymouth. This was his street car but still set a record on the strip.

5488375-HooversHemi.jpg (68 downloads)

Floyd Lippencott IV
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