|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BILLYJAY]
#463476
09/08/09 10:41 PM
09/08/09 10:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
Steve1118
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,763
Walton's Mountain, Pa
|
It's not necessary. You deal with the engine builder/dealer, and they are good and bad. Bob George is an Indy dealer and his integrity is absolutely beyond reproach. But, you call Flagle or Lazzari and all you will get is P.O.'d.
The fact is that their stuff is good...and guys run real fast with it. My advice is to find a good engine builder that has good relationships with them and let them handle it.
"Old age and treachery trumps youth and enthusiasm, every time!" East Central Director / Chrysler Power Magazine www.reasbeckracing.webs.com
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BILLYJAY]
#463477
09/08/09 11:03 PM
09/08/09 11:03 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
i understand your plight, but it's possoble in your case it's not all indy's fault. i don't mean any disrespect, but consider this for what it's worth.
many people attemp to build their own engines without having either the experience or expertise to see it through without having problems. in your case it sounds like you bought a kit that included the pushrods. now, before you assembled said pushrods, did you check the wall thickness? did you decide it was ample for YOUR application? who assembled and installed them? maybe you didn't know that an .080 pushrod was not good enough? this isn't a slam on you, but you have to take some blame on this one, dodn't you.
when in doubt, ask questions. i'm think (and i could be wrong} that you simply didn't know any better. if that's the case you wouldn't be the frst one. lots of people use their pushrods and don't have any issues. personally, i choose not to use them at all, but that's just a personal preference. if i had sold you a top end kit, you WOULD NOT have gotten their pushrods with it, i guarantee it. i feel bad for what your going through, but a thread TO indy and ABOUT indy, or to the dealers, isn't going to solve anything IMO. i hope you get it sorted out without any magor damage.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
#463478
09/08/09 11:20 PM
09/08/09 11:20 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
|
Quote:
i understand your plight, but it's possoble in your case it's not all indy's fault. i don't mean any disrespect, but consider this for what it's worth.
many people attemp to build their own engines without having either the experience or expertise to see it through without having problems. in your case it sounds like you bought a kit that included the pushrods. now, before you assembled said pushrods, did you check the wall thickness? did you decide it was ample for YOUR application? who assembled and installed them? maybe you didn't know that an .080 pushrod was not good enough? this isn't a slam on you, but you have to take some blame on this one, dodn't you.
when in doubt, ask questions. i'm think (and i could be wrong} that you simply didn't know any better. if that's the case you wouldn't be the frst one. lots of people use their pushrods and don't have any issues. personally, i choose not to use them at all, but that's just a personal preference. if i had sold you a top end kit, you WOULD NOT have gotten their pushrods with it, i guarantee it. i feel bad for what your going through, but a thread TO indy and ABOUT indy, or to the dealers, isn't going to solve anything IMO. i hope you get it sorted out without any magor damage.
See that is the problem right there.It is always the other persons fault.The pushrods are junk........Heads that are sold ready to run and the guides are so damn tight that in 3 seconds of run time the exhaust valve is pinched.Must I go on?I do love their stuff but some people are sick of getting it in the rear.
Please take that $hit somewhere else.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
#463479
09/08/09 11:22 PM
09/08/09 11:22 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,416
Lake Charles,Louisiana
BILLYJAY
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,416
Lake Charles,Louisiana
|
This is what i'm talking about DRAM..you as a dealer of whatever products are pushing blame else where and not addressing my question or concern.... i as a consumer expect some level of help and advise with any purchase that invloves this type of HP or money...as i stated above.. if these heads are capable of producing 900+hp then one would think that there are some serious springs and cams involved..Right ??? you say you wouldn't sale these pushrods with a topend kit ... Why not ??? because you know they are inferior and not near what is needed to cover the range of these heads..Correct ???? thats what i'm asking..is that some people that has some input with indy speak up and out to them to address these issues..if i had known that these pushrods were not capable of handling what i was building then do you really think i would have bought them ??? i have spent 40K building my car and buying and using the best parts for my application.. why then would i be cheap on a set of pushrods?? i do have experience with engines but i am no master mechanic and dont think anyone would expect to buy quality products from a vendor and then get some cheap part to try to make it work.. knowing all the trouble they have had with these items alone, why wouldnt something be done..???? if you were saling a cheap and inferior product and kept getting call after call with issues. would you investigate ?? or close your ears to the problem and continue to sale crap to the people who not only rely on you for quality products but your help and knowledge with the very items that you sale...is that too much to ask ??? I DONT THINK SO.. *****************************************************************STEVE,,I'm Not looking for an engine builder to deal with ..what i want is for indy to back their products and correct and flaws or cheap parts with a quality product that people are always haning trouble with... your missing the point.. dealers will still have to make it right and get anther set from indy..i dont want ANOTHER set..i want a set that will handle the hp that they are making.. and the springs that we are using...thats all...
Last edited by BILLYJAY; 09/08/09 11:26 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BILLYJAY]
#463480
09/08/09 11:47 PM
09/08/09 11:47 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
i know it's not what you want to hear, sorry.
your missing my point. it's not a matter of placing blame, i tried not to offend you, or anyone else. obviously i didn't succeed. unfortunately you didn't answer any of the questions i asked.
for a lot of people, .080 wall pushrods would be just fine. i don't like their pushrods, but people do use them successfully. they didn't work for you obviously, but why? please don't say "because they're junk". think it through and be honest about it.
i deal with aftermarket parts 16 hours a day, 6 days a week. anybody in my business can tell you stories about most any brand of part out there. the majority of them simply don't bolt on "out of the box", and most need something done to make them useable. if your running 750 lb springs, .080 wall pushrods won't get the job done. a lot of people might buy the same kit with lighter springs and have no issues at all. like it or not, the end user also has to accept some responsibilty for using the correct parts for the application. yes, they sold you a kit, did they install the springs on the heads and if so, at what pressure where they set up at? or, did someone else set up the heads? there's plenty of blame that can go to Indy for a lot of different reasons. i'm not sure this is ALL their fault simply because i don't know the answers to the questions i previously asked. shoot the messenger if you wish, but it's not personal, I'm simply asking questions and conveying my thoughts as someone that see's this stuff day in and day out.
mis- machined parts drive me, and guys in my profession absolutely looney tunes. i've been raked over the coals right here on Moparts numerous times for speaking my mind about some of them, and i'm sure it'll happen again in this thread because i'm not posting the ever popular, "lets bash Indy" response.
Last edited by DRAM_Perf_Only; 09/08/09 11:52 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: 8secDart]
#463481
09/08/09 11:58 PM
09/08/09 11:58 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
See that is the problem right there.It is always the other persons fault.The pushrods are junk........Heads that are sold ready to run and the guides are so damn tight that in 3 seconds of run time the exhaust valve is pinched.Must I go on?I do love their stuff but some people are sick of getting it in the rear.
Please take that $hit somewhere else.
as a "hot rod shop" you know that pretty much nothing is ready out of the box, especially cylinder heads, and that is regardless of brand. i deal with world, dart brodix, AFR, edelbrock and on and on. every head comes apart and gets inspected and corrected as needed. it's not like that issue is privy Only to Indy so please give me a break with your last comment.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: jamesc]
#463485
09/09/09 01:10 AM
09/09/09 01:10 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
|
Not siding with anybody here either, but just because the heads you bought are capable of making 900hp, does not mean everybody who buys those heads will be making that power. If you want to be an engine builder, you should know that .080 wall pushrods are not going to get it done at a 900hp level. I don't really see this as Indys fault, just because it was in the kit. Would it be their fault if you put more cam in, than their installed height would allow? The vast majority of these decisions fall to the engine builder, not the guys who make the parts. If Indy had done that motor in house, it would not have those pushrods in it. I am not at all defending Indy, because sometimes their customer service is lacking, but they do make good parts, if used properly.
I am not an INDY dealer, but I do use their parts at times. I have also used the kit pushrods and rockers, with absolutely zero issues, but i know the limitations of those parts. Sure, INDY could sell a kit with a high dollar set of Manton or Smith Brothers pushrods, but then, they would get bashed because their kit was $100 bucks more than somebody elses.
Monte
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: B1Fish540]
#463486
09/09/09 01:11 AM
09/09/09 01:11 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
|
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
|
Quote:
"Dont buy direct from them..go through a dealer".
And MY question would be ... WHY is Indy - or any HP parts vendor that has a Dealer or WD program - selling DIRECT to the consumer ?
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BILLYJAY]
#463487
09/09/09 01:20 AM
09/09/09 01:20 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
BDS871Cuda
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,949
land of 10,000______'s
|
It's all about the money $$$$$. Indy is for making money. They know these kits are _____, but they put a package together that is not to much $$$$ to sell there big seller (Heads). All the other stuff they have to buy, and don't make as much money on. People get into some very high dollar stuff not knowing there is way more to be spent on top of your big investment. They could sell you just a set of heads and before you know it, bam!!!! you have $10 G's in them. But they would rather sell a bolt them on and go kit. It looks like a good deal untill you bolt them on and it goes south. It's all snake oil. Everything out there is made somehow someway to catch the eye. Indy does it very well with fancy adds, catchy magazine adds, the big tent at the races and carshows. They tell you over the phone that Edelbrock heads are junk because they want you to buy there heads to make more money. But, they know some people will not pay there crazy price for there heads, so to keep the customer, they offer Indybrocks and still make money, just not as much if you would of bought there EZ heads or whatever. Kits forsale!!! Get your kits here!!!! 
Snap your neck, mega G-force launch, is all I want!
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: BDS871Cuda]
#463488
09/09/09 01:51 AM
09/09/09 01:51 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 871
WA 98043
thecarfarmer
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 871
WA 98043
|
One thing I don't understand is why an Indy distributor would bother to respond on this thread. Not trying to be an A-hole (I don't have to try  ), but if I've already bought my Indy stuff elsewhere, and then run into problems, why should Dram, Fast68, BG, or any of the other reputable guys here go to bat for me? I bought three orders of parts from a lower-priced manufacturer who sponsors this board, without going thru a dealer. I had issues on all three orders. I figured it was between me and that company to get it all worked out. Luckily, they took care of the problem all three times - but it wouldn't have been the responsibility of anyone who sells their products to help make it right. As far as BILLYJAY's pushrod problem, yeah, I feel ya'. You don't want to know how many problems I've had with 'drop-in- type parts on my build... and it's just a Stealth-headed stock block street engine. Not to speak of all the 'going backwards' I did, learning that parts I'd bought wouldn't work with other parts I'd bought. I agree, I'd expect that a guy selling a top end kit would match pushrods to the springs installed on the heads. If I changed springs, then I'd expect that the durability of the pushrods would be in question. If not, then I'd feel I had a complaint if they weren't up to it. My comment to Indy is: remember, we can buy Brodix. Maybe that'd be a good thing if more of us did. I bet if the mopar enthusiasts all quit bending over for them, at some point, Indy's ownership would become much more responsive to customer satisfaction. Just my .02 -Bill
Seduce the attractive, and charm the rest.
******
489 C.I.D., roller cam, aftermarket heads, tunnel ram, stock '54 Dodge rear axle assembly: which of these doesn't belong?
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#463490
09/09/09 03:54 AM
09/09/09 03:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
MoparBilly
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,448
Phoenix, AZ
|
I am always amazed by hot rodders who want products at the cheapest possible price, make the most HP, and are durable/ hassle free! Like the ole joke goes...Pick 2!!
When I first bought my Edelbrock RPM's, I took them to my machinist, and had them gone over, first thing he told me was the supplied springs tested really week. So, I ended up upgrading the springs and retainers before they were even bolted on.
I bought my 440-1's from a friend who had the kit on a shelf for a few years, when I picked it up he said, "Sorry, I can't find the pushrod kit yet". I said, "Quit looking, I wasn't going to use them". Likewise with the rockers, after watching my brother break nearly 2 sets 1 rocker at a time over a 3 year period, I knew mine would be sold as spares immediately.
Would Indy's kit be better if it came pre-packaged with T&D rockers and Smith Brothers pushrods?? Of course!!! Could they compete in the free market place against B-1's and Edelbrock, if they had a 5000$ entry level price point?? uh, probably not!!
I'm not saying you did anything wrong. I am saying with a little more research, you would've found that your expectations for the "as supplied" pushrods, and Indy's customer service, were unrealisticly high.
"Livin' in a powder keg and givin' off sparks"
4 Street cars, 5 Race engines
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
#463491
09/09/09 07:02 AM
09/09/09 07:02 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
Jimi_Vignogna
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 428
wappinger falls new york
|
Quote:
for a lot of people, .080 wall pushrods would be just fine.
dram you build engines all the time i see you post about them when a new build is done, my question is do you install .080 wall pushrods in any thing you build? i won't use anything less than .120 even on a stock engine. and this is not to blast you im just wondering your opinion.
oh and by the way i will blast indy every chance i get after my hemi cylinder head fiasco with kenny and russ.i will not stop untill i at least get an apology on the roughly $8000.00 loss i took. those two are the most incapeable s.o.b's on the planet ! they screw up all the time and refuse to be accountable. someone like yourself that uses there product and sells alot of it should speak up about it to others and to them. maybe they will start to listen and get there minds straight.
|
|
|
Re: Indy Dealers And Moderators.. ATTENTION !!!!!!!!!
[Re: Steve1118]
#463493
09/09/09 08:04 AM
09/09/09 08:04 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
maundmotorworks
Stealth poster
|
Stealth poster
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,209
Fredericktown, PA 15333
|
Quote:
It's not necessary. You deal with the engine builder/dealer, and they are good and bad. Bob George is an Indy dealer and his integrity is absolutely beyond reproach. But, you call Flagle or Lazzari and all you will get is P.O.'d.
The fact is that their stuff is good...and guys run real fast with it. My advice is to find a good engine builder that has good relationships with them and let them handle it.
Steve, you are absolutely right. I am not an Indy distributor, but I am a builder and have built countless engines with Indy's product line, and I've never had a major problem with their stuff. Sure, you get a minor problem here or there, and anytime I've called Indy they've been nothing but professional and courteous to me. Maybe I'm the lucky one out of the bunch here, I don't know, but a very important fact remains. Nothing mass produced through the aftermarket is a direct bolt on. Anyone who thinks that it is or thousands of dollars makes it so watches too much Spike TV and reads too many Hot Rod magazines. When a part gives a person trouble, the builder or the manufacturer is always the first to get the blame or get bashed. And while there are certain cases where it is indeed justified, typically it is the owner/installer that is more defective than the part. And it's the person that doesn't want to admit they made a mistake or doesn't know what they thought they did, so instead they bash everyone else but themselves. I find it really odd that I've gone on other forums and talked to many customers and colleagues in my business and I don't see nearly the amount of bashing as I see here. I can't help but wonder why that is...  
Maund Motorworks--supplier of high performance Mopar engines--specializing in B, RB, and Hemi. www.maundmotorworks.com
|
|
|
|
|
