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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: dvw]
#461831
09/07/09 10:08 PM
09/07/09 10:08 PM
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JohnRR
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Greg , is this still on the factory provided main line machining or did you have it redone ? I had a similar issue, stock 440 block , added studs and linebored for the studs because the torque spec for studs is greater than bolts. I put in the crank and it would lock up when #3 was torqued to spec, I hadn't opened the cap holes on #3 BEFORE the line bore, I ream to 17/32nd, I did it afterwards.
I finally figured out the cap was cut crooked by the shop , they all were, and it allowed the studs to straighten out the cap when torqued because the block side of the cap wasn't parallel to the spot face where the bolt/nut clamps against the cap.
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: JohnRR]
#461833
09/08/09 12:18 AM
09/08/09 12:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Quote:
Greg , is this still on the factory provided main line machining or did you have it redone ? I had a similar issue, stock 440 block , added studs and linebored for the studs because the torque spec for studs is greater than bolts. I put in the crank and it would lock up when #3 was torqued to spec, I hadn't opened the cap holes on #3 BEFORE the line bore, I ream to 17/32nd, I did it afterwards.
I finally figured out the cap was cut crooked by the shop , they all were, and it allowed the studs to straighten out the cap when torqued because the block side of the cap wasn't parallel to the spot face where the bolt/nut clamps against the cap.
Caps were drilled to 17/32 by RBRE when they put in the stud kit, apparently. They did the original machine work. All holes are .531, which is 17/32.
DRAGRACER97 could not find any bolts to fit. This has been a studded block from day one. Hemi style bottom end, so it has to have longer bolts than I have in my possession.
Am going out to see what measurements are now on all main bores.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: gregsdart]
#461834
09/08/09 12:34 AM
09/08/09 12:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Found these numbers.
Factory specs 2.9425 to 2.9430
Mine are;
#1 front side, 2.9425 back side 2.9431
#2 front side, 2.9427 back side 2.9430
#3 front side, 2.9421 back side 2.9428
#4 front side, 2.9434 back side 2.9427
#5 front side, 2.9434 back side 2.9435
Too much variance for my new crank to come home to. I think it is time for a line hone. The bearings always did come out of this motor with odd wear patterns, maybe this is why.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: gregsdart]
#461836
09/08/09 01:09 AM
09/08/09 01:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
Found these numbers.
Factory specs 2.9425 to 2.9430
Mine are;
#1 front side, 2.9425 back side 2.9431
#2 front side, 2.9427 back side 2.9430
#3 front side, 2.9421 back side 2.9428
#4 front side, 2.9434 back side 2.9427
#5 front side, 2.9434 back side 2.9435
Too much variance for my new crank to come home to. I think it is time for a line hone. The bearings always did come out of this motor with odd wear patterns, maybe this is why.
I'd agree with you on that , something is just not right with those numbers
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#461838
09/08/09 08:47 AM
09/08/09 08:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Thanks for the input , guys. Monte, this block was ordered with the stud kit installed, so a guy would hope they did it right. The caps and bores all show consistent hone marks. That would lead me to believe the stud kit may have been put in without a re hone?
Yep, it will get a line hone. Troubles that will pop up with that are loss of piston to head clearance, not a super big issue but another $150 for new gaskets. The milodon gear drive may be an issue though. Will have to check with them and see what can be done to make that fit again, as the holes for alignment are already in the block.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/08/09 08:55 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: gregsdart]
#461841
09/08/09 09:21 AM
09/08/09 09:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,175
Duloc
The Shadow
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Duloc
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If your happy with your results.  I was just offering a solution to check a stud bind issue. How many years have you run the block? Did it have oiling issues?
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: The Shadow]
#461842
09/08/09 10:55 AM
09/08/09 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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this block has been around for a while, only 100 passes on it though since new. Thanks again, will re post after the trip to the machine shop with new numbers.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: The Shadow]
#461844
09/08/09 04:53 PM
09/08/09 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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JohnRR
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Quote:
If your happy with your results.
I was just offering a solution to check a stud bind issue.
How many years have you run the block?
Did it have oiling issues?
Stud bind issue should be easy to spot , if you have to tap the cap to one side to pull the studs , I had to do that on the block I described above , the caps are cocked .
It's quite possible that somone swapped in the studs and didn't bother to rehone the block ?
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap **update**
[Re: 602heavy]
#461846
09/08/09 05:33 PM
09/08/09 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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It's quite possible that somone swapped in the studs and didn't bother to rehone the block ?
I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but that thought crossed my mind. The other possibility is due to severe usage, stuff just moved. The problem with that idea is, I have two opinions i trust that don't think that happens.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/15/09 09:16 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap won't seat properly?
[Re: JohnRR]
#461847
09/08/09 08:57 PM
09/08/09 08:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
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Quote:
Greg , is this still on the factory provided main line machining or did you have it redone ? I had a similar issue, stock 440 block , added studs and linebored for the studs because the torque spec for studs is greater than bolts. I put in the crank and it would lock up when #3 was torqued to spec, I hadn't opened the cap holes on #3 BEFORE the line bore, I ream to 17/32nd, I did it afterwards.
I finally figured out the cap was cut crooked by the shop , they all were, and it allowed the studs to straighten out the cap when torqued because the block side of the cap wasn't parallel to the spot face where the bolt/nut clamps against the cap.
Same here. I even sent the #3 bearing back the first time.
I finally figured it out. Caps weren't trued up on the faces
before the caps were cut. When I'd torque #3, it would pinch
the crank between the thrust surfaces.
I pulled the bearing halves out, installed them, one at a time in the
cap and lapped them with 600 grit on a granite surface plate.
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Re: engine guys, #3 bearing cap **update**
[Re: gregsdart]
#461848
09/15/09 09:09 AM
09/15/09 09:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,997
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Got the block back from the machine shop, and all bearing bores check within .0001 to .0002 on all five bearing bores, front to rear, and all are nice and round.
One discrepancy- my dial bore gauge was set to zero off a good mike, at 2.9425. Block came back tagged 2.9427 . I checked all bores, all measured +.0011 to +.0013, or a total of 9.436 to 9.437. I pulled another brand new mike out of its packing to double check my dial bore gauge, and came up with the exact same reading as the first mike. By setting the new mike to 9.425, it reads zero on the dial bore gauge same as the first mike.
Any input on the difference of measurements?
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/15/09 09:17 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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At this point it should be manditory when studs replace the factory main cap bolts, the block be line honed and the #3 thrust cap be drilled out with a 17/32 drill. Chuck Senatore taught me this trick 15 years ago. 
