Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: Moparnocar]
#446314
08/22/09 06:29 PM
08/22/09 06:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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You want the idle timing set (as said) where your eng/cam needs it to be and you want your total to be 36-38(BB w vac adv disconnected/plugged or not being used) so to get both of those right you will most likely need to (not JB  )weld the dist slots so when the initial is right then the total is right then play w the springs & for now you need a baseline, with your initial @ 12 see what that puts your total at & the rpm at that point when it stops advancing. If you are hearing absolutely no pinging then no damage is being done & you can continue to work on each subsystem & get each one near perfect one at a time IN ORDER, initial,total(slot length),springs,then vac adv & you are not running it.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: RapidRobert]
#446315
08/22/09 06:56 PM
08/22/09 06:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,373
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
D_C
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,373
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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Pretty much agree with Robert above. This is a Good Moparts Post for you to Review You can set your timing at 2,600 or 3,000 RPM to as-much-as 36 or 38 Degrees Total-Advance. TOTAL-ADVANCE
Vacuum = 0, in you example. Plus Mechanical-Advance, built into the distributor, or you can adjust or "customize" mechanical-advance by shortening the advance-slots, Plus Advance you get from twisting/bolting-down the distributor housing.As long as the engine starts when cold and/or warmed up/Hot, who cares what your Initial-Advance is set to (basically, for reference only.)
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: D_C]
#446316
08/22/09 07:09 PM
08/22/09 07:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
As long as the engine starts when cold and/or warmed up/Hot, who cares what your Initial-Advance is set to (basically, for reference only.)
I disagree with this and setting using total only will give you problems when running larger cams with no regard for initial.
You determine initial first, then tailor the mechanical to come up with your desired total timing. Running on a dyno is great tool for coming up with an adequate total number. You still need to get an initial number after that then dial in mechanical to get your number.
Try running a decent sized cam in a SB with 28* mechanical in the distributor... good luck with that one. No chance the thing will run decent at idle with 4-8* initial. Dirty idle, throttle blades open a ton, poor throttle response... same goes for a BB.
IMO, Rapid is spot on with his progression for getting timing squared away.
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: RobX4406]
#446317
08/22/09 07:47 PM
08/22/09 07:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
IronWolf
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
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Quote:
Quote:
As long as the engine starts when cold and/or warmed up/Hot, who cares what your Initial-Advance is set to (basically, for reference only.)
I disagree with this and setting using total only will give you problems when running larger cams with no regard for initial.
You determine initial first, then tailor the mechanical to come up with your desired total timing. Running on a dyno is great tool for coming up with an adequate total number. You still need to get an initial number after that then dial in mechanical to get your number.
Try running a decent sized cam in a SB with 28* mechanical in the distributor... good luck with that one. No chance the thing will run decent at idle with 4-8* initial. Dirty idle, throttle blades open a ton, poor throttle response... same goes for a BB.
IMO, Rapid is spot on with his progression for getting timing squared away.
Rapid is not spot on. His grammar is horrible. His post features run-on sentences. His logic is flawed, too. Enough is enough. Go to the Mopar Action website and read what Ehrenberg has to say.
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: IronWolf]
#446318
08/22/09 07:56 PM
08/22/09 07:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As long as the engine starts when cold and/or warmed up/Hot, who cares what your Initial-Advance is set to (basically, for reference only.)
I disagree with this and setting using total only will give you problems when running larger cams with no regard for initial.
You determine initial first, then tailor the mechanical to come up with your desired total timing. Running on a dyno is great tool for coming up with an adequate total number. You still need to get an initial number after that then dial in mechanical to get your number.
Try running a decent sized cam in a SB with 28* mechanical in the distributor... good luck with that one. No chance the thing will run decent at idle with 4-8* initial. Dirty idle, throttle blades open a ton, poor throttle response... same goes for a BB.
IMO, Rapid is spot on with his progression for getting timing squared away.
Rapid is not spot on. His grammar is horrible. His post features run-on sentences. His logic is flawed, too. Enough is enough. Go to the Mopar Action website and read what Ehrenberg has to say.
Grammar, run ons... who cares. Is this a carry over from the orange thread???? 
initial, total(slot length), springs, then vac adv
That progression is spot on IMO.
How about some links to this stuff from booger.... I won't mention the fallacy that F body spindles don't work on A bodies that he loves to crow about! They are actually better except for the extreme ranges.
How about bringing something useful to the post instead of the grammar police deal. 
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: IronWolf]
#446320
08/22/09 09:06 PM
08/22/09 09:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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IronWolf it is not about what I(or anybody else) is doing(or not doing) it is about what is going on with YOU. And the reason that is, is because YOU are the one hot under the collar and I certainly dont want to aggravate you any further but your bad day has nothing to do with my(or anybody elses) writing style here on Moparts and my writing style did not CAUSE your bad day. YOU did.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: RobX4406]
#446321
08/22/09 10:22 PM
08/22/09 10:22 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,373
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
D_C
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,373
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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Well, their was reasoning behind my earlier reply, diminishing the importance of Initial-Advance. Locked-Out Distributors, that only run 30-plus-degrees of Full-Advance (with timing retard to Start the engine using a multi-spark retard, if so equipped.) This post for example: From Moparts Unlawful's Tech Archive
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: D_C]
#446323
08/22/09 10:52 PM
08/22/09 10:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
Well, their was reasoning behind my earlier reply, diminishing the importance of Initial-Advance.
Locked-Out Distributors, that only run 30-plus-degrees of Full-Advance (with timing retard to Start the engine using a multi-spark retard, if so equipped.)
This post for example:
From Moparts Unlawful's Tech Archive
That's much different than what you posted/quoted above regarding mechanical adv set ups. Locked out is a totally different animal from a distributor with mechanical advance.
Setting timing using total advance with a distributor containing mechanical advance, disregarding initial, is a recipe for headaches. Sometimes you get lucky and it works. Most of the time it doesn't. Especially when big than stock camshafts are involved.
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I know guys that couldn't make it through High school but are absolute genius level when it comes to making cars perform. My grandfather fixed the front suspension on an Indy 500 winning car because the big time engineers couldn't get it squared away.
Yes, It would be nice if everyone was literate and used proper grammar... I ain't gonna pick on nobody about it. Different strokes.
The mopar action site sucks for looking stuff up... JMHO.
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Re: Ignition timing help...
[Re: IronWolf]
#446324
08/22/09 11:01 PM
08/22/09 11:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 112
SK, Canada
etek
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 112
SK, Canada
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Quote:
Correct grammar and sentence structure is a pretty valid indicator of education/IQ. Do you want an ignorant person giving you tuning advice ? That would imply an inability to read/interpret manuals. I don't see this kind of horribly phrased "English", and incoherent language in any of the technical manuals I've ever seen..
Just go to the Mopar Action website (or others) - sheesh.
sheesh - what a tool.
I've learned more about tuning cars from mechanics who dropped out of high-school than I ever did from english professors who think they are mechanics!
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