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Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: Bob_Coomer] #444121
08/23/09 08:40 PM
08/23/09 08:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart Offline
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Salisbury North Carolina
Quote:

Quote:

Lots of good info posted (and some bench racing, and bickering).

IMO, if you keep it to 800 hp and stay away from the nitrous it will last a reasonable amount of time. But you have to find a block with good cylinders and change the main caps, and a girdle would fit your needs. A 511 CID is all you need (4.250" stroke, 4.375" bore).

But I can't argue with the benefit of spending $1000 more and having a World Products (MP) block.

$ 250 a good sonic checked 400 block (might cost more to find 1 of 7)
$ 400 normal machine work (bore, hone, deck, clean, etc).
$ 375 Aluminum main caps
$ 400 Machine and fit main caps
$ 200 ? Girdle
-----
$1625





Caps and Girdle from BCR is $800+ shipping.
440 Source Girdle is $279 Which include bolts.

So lets do some Math..
Say you locate a good "230" Block and get it for a steal at $200.

So..
-$200 Block
-$800BCR main girdle cap package
-$1625 for basic machine work as Jim Posted.
-$90 for Hard Block
-Say you have another $150 for additional labor, cam bearings installed, mag'n, stroker clearance, hard block filling etc

Now we have $2865 in this near 40 year old block.
Even if you had the block, and didnt inquire additional labor.
Thats still over $2500..
It doesnt make sense to have this money in a stock block, only to have it split a cylinder 3 seasons down the road and trash the whole engine..

IMO Girdle's, aluminum main caps, nor hard block seem to keep a block from splitting cylinders. I know this as pure fact not speculation.






I'am glad I DONOT use all that junk.I might have $500 in a block ready to go.But,well,oh,well.Lenny

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: moparniac] #444122
08/23/09 08:44 PM
08/23/09 08:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 6
peoria, az
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B1satellite Offline
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I really can't believe all of you have never built a decent motor making around 600 hp. And you think that a tall fill, aluminum caps, main girdle, and the likes is required to make another 150-200? Gimme some of that stuff you're smoking!

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: B1satellite] #444123
08/23/09 08:58 PM
08/23/09 08:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
Quote:

I really can't believe all of you have never built a decent motor making around 600 hp. And you think that a tall fill, aluminum caps, main girdle, and the likes is required to make another 150-200? Gimme some of that stuff you're smoking!




Fire it up and pass it this way, if you think "another 150-200hp" doesnt add stress to a stock block thats already at 600hp. Your 493 cube'd Template ported 906's that have shift point at 5700 rpms, is pretty diff from a B1 engine.
You guys do what you want, but seems about once a week or so someone is posting up blocks that has gave up the ghost..

were not talking about 493 inch enignes that has home ported Edelbrock RPM heads here.
Were talking about a stroker engine with B1's that doesnt seem to respond well to 6500 rpm shift points.
If turning a stock block 7400-7800 rpms doesnt seem to bother you, then go right ahead. I have built and run engine at this caliber. And the large head B1 heads like RPM.


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: Bob_Coomer] #444124
08/23/09 09:19 PM
08/23/09 09:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart Offline
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Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
Quote:

Quote:

I really can't believe all of you have never built a decent motor making around 600 hp. And you think that a tall fill, aluminum caps, main girdle, and the likes is required to make another 150-200? Gimme some of that stuff you're smoking!




Fire it up and pass it this way, if you think "another 150-200hp" doesnt add stress to a stock block thats already at 600hp. Your 493 cube'd Template ported 906's that have shift point at 5700 rpms, is pretty diff from a B1 engine.
You guys do what you want, but seems about once a week or so someone is posting up blocks that has gave up the ghost..

were not talking about 493 inch enignes that has home ported Edelbrock RPM heads here.
Were talking about a stroker engine with B1's that doesnt seem to respond well to 6500 rpm shift points.
If turning a stock block 7400-7800 rpms doesnt seem to bother you, then go right ahead. I have built and run engine at this caliber. And the large head B1 heads like RPM.





Your right my 8,200 shifts and 8.70s in a 3,500lbs car is not a cookie cutter.I agree 100% that a new block is the best,but if a guy has a A-body or like me never had that kind of money a stock 400 block will do.My A$$ puckers every run I've made in my life,but it beat the hell out off typing about racing on the computer.Lenny

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: Bob_Coomer] #444125
08/23/09 09:27 PM
08/23/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 674
Ripley
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BryanRad Offline
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Ripley
The original post asked about a 400 block. Where can an aftermarket 400 block be had for 2800? Unless I am missing something, if he is set that he wants a short deck block, the only options outside of a stock block are KB and Indy. Sure anybody on here can name numerous RB blocks that have failed, but how many of you can site specific examples of where a properly prepared 400 block failed.

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: 8secDart] #444126
08/23/09 09:46 PM
08/23/09 09:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705
Michigan
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Hemiroid Offline
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Michigan


Quote:


Your right my 8,200 shifts and 8.70s in a 3,500lbs car is not a cookie cutter.I agree 100% that a new block is the best,but if a guy has a A-body or like me never had that kind of money a stock 400 block will do.My A$$ puckers every run I've made in my life,but it beat the hell out off typing about racing on the computer.Lenny




How is the crap you're typing any different than his? Apply that same logic to your own keyboard warrioring and you wouldn't look so silly.

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: BryanRad] #444127
08/23/09 09:48 PM
08/23/09 09:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,647
ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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ELYRIA,OH
i saw a KB block milled to 400 deckheight.it takes some work though.

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: blownzoom440] #444128
08/23/09 09:56 PM
08/23/09 09:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart Offline
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Salisbury North Carolina
MotherF----- I have done it.I done it 15 Damn years ago.I am stll doing it.I did not sit on a computer asking people how to,I was out there beating on parts.No I'am not John Fing Force But damn I Have built some bad A$$ cars with only the little bit of money I had.

Last edited by 8secDart; 08/23/09 10:52 PM.
Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: 8secDart] #444129
08/23/09 10:39 PM
08/23/09 10:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
Barnstorm Offline
mopar
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Minnesota
I'm glad I didn't change my firing order.

5436662-mopar_resize.jpg (65 downloads)

The little old lady from Pasadena is back!
Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: 8secDart] #444130
08/23/09 10:54 PM
08/23/09 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
Quote:

MotherF----- I have done it.I done it 10 Damn years ago.I am stll doing it.I did not sit on a computer asking people how to,I was out there beating on parts.No I'am not John Fing Force But damn I Have built some bad A$$ cars with only the little bit of money I had.




Why do you want to curse people for? cause we actually have a good debate, and you disagree with some statements and opinion given?
Dude you have some personal issue's.
We all get how we have slow cars, and everyone else with there 11 second car questions just gets under your skin. and for us to you ask dumb questions on this web site which just seem to be trivial to you, may have merit non the less. We all know how great you are, and how fast all your cars is, you tell us in every post BTW.
You never provide any useful info, other than to sling garbage, and sling mud on people. If you dont like it here, or the people, simply go away. I betting people wont care.


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: Bob_Coomer] #444131
08/23/09 11:00 PM
08/23/09 11:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,256
Salisbury North Carolina
8secDart Offline
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Salisbury North Carolina
Ok you win.But the people reading these post know that is not the case.Thanks have a good day.

Last edited by 8secDart; 08/23/09 11:01 PM.
Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: 8secDart] #444132
08/23/09 11:22 PM
08/23/09 11:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
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Flint, Michigan
Last time this debate came up, Andy Mayes came on and defended 8 sec's position. Andy said he used to use stock blocks that lasted several seasons, and as everybody knows he sprayed the motors pretty good too. Kinda blows my theory of heavy cars being harder on stock blocks..lol That said, everything is anecdotal..meaning: your results may vary. Again I have to compare this debate to that of the 8 3/4 vs the 9 inch or Dana 60 . Lotta guys have had great luck with the 8 3/4...others world'nt run it if their life depended on it (and it could ). So a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do (thanks Sylvester!)and to each his own

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: B1Fish540] #444133
08/24/09 12:52 AM
08/24/09 12:52 AM
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Posts: 6
peoria, az
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B1satellite Offline
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While I will admit that the stock block has its limits, I have not found them. On a weaker 440 block with iron heads we were twisting it to almost 7000 with a 400 hit on a fogger and it did not even bounce a cap! The most important factor in making any combo live is your tune-up! Detonation will split ANY factory block skirt no matter what you do! That being said, I am waiting for the good deal to come my way on a KB low deck block, but until then the factory stuff works fine for me.

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: B1satellite] #444134
08/24/09 01:32 AM
08/24/09 01:32 AM
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Posts: 5,875
communist bloc of new jersey
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everyone has opinions, many have valid points and some vary. here are mine which i won't say are any more valid than the next.

first though one would think moving a heavy car is harder work for the engine i don't, work is force times distance. now for a given HP output in a heavier car the engine WILL be providing that same force for a longer period of time which we can say is more duty.

obviously throwing money at an engine is no assurance that it will survive but we can all get caught up in false economy as well. yes a good aftermarket block will cost you more but how much will you have saved if the stock block fails and puts you in the wall or worse? getting a stock block whittled into respectable shape for racing isn't cheap and when you're all done you still have a 40+ YO passenger car block designed for a lot less HP then we're talking here. as one poster pointed out there was a time when there were few if any other options but again as mentioned that time has passed.

each person is an individual and the amount of money they can afford to spend will vary dramatically. if you plan on putting a lot of laps on it running it hard then a stock block can very well be a liability.

i agree that people have gotten away with using stock blocks but how often do posters come here and ask how far they can go with their aftermarket block?

you spend your money you take your chances

Re: B1 Guys what is the max HP [Re: 8secDart] #444135
08/24/09 02:29 AM
08/24/09 02:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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Quote:

MotherF----- I have done it.I done it 15 Damn years ago.I am stll doing it.I did not sit on a computer asking people how to,I was out there beating on parts.No I'am not John Fing Force But damn I Have built some bad A$$ cars with only the little bit of money I had.




Personally I think the manner inwhich you are conducting yourself is very unprofessional for an employee or Proprietor of a Business. Right or wrong, people are entitles to their opinions, and the profanities aren't called for. Maybe I am old fashioned, but if you spoke to me in your shop in that manner, I'd be taking my money else where. I am surprised the Mods haven't jumped on this post yet.
AL....


Alan Jones
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