Engine builders, I could use some advice
#441989
08/18/09 12:42 PM
08/18/09 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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I have a Muscle Motors built 474 stroker with Mopar Stage 6 heads and a Comp Cam .625 lift roller cam, Crane gold rockers (I'm pretty sure 1.5 ratio) I am beginning to suspect that my valve springs are getting weak, the car is slowing both et and mph. It makes little or no difference if I shift (4-speed) at 5800 or 6500 rpm. I've experimented with timing, shift points, etc without much change. The motor is pretty old but with a small amount of runs/miles (meaning that it has sat a lot). I have heard that you need to relieve the pressure from the springs for lay-ups but have never done it. I don't have the equipment to check the springs so I am thinking replacing them would be just as cheap as buying the tools.  My questions are: 1) What springs do I need (part numbers would really help)? 2) Does someone make a tool where I can charge the cylinder with air and remove/replace the springs? Thanks in advance, Mike
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#441990
08/18/09 12:51 PM
08/18/09 12:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
Jacob Pitt
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,528
Mansfield, Tx
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A compression checker or a leak down tester will have a air line that will thread into your head to keep the valves closed. Also I think Mancini Racing sells a on head valve spring remover. Of course all of this would cost about the same as a spring tester and you can know for sure if your springs are weak or not.
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#441992
08/18/09 01:27 PM
08/18/09 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705
Michigan
Hemiroid
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 705
Michigan
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You can build a hose for airing up cylinders from Milton fittings found at auto parts stores or use a hose from a leak/comp checker as stated above. You can also remove the plug and thread in some nylon rope with the piston down in the hole, then run the piston up towards tdc until the rope meets the chambers/valve heads and stops. Works quite well, done it a million times.
As for the springs, Comp 943's or Isky 9935's.
Last edited by Hemiroid; 08/18/09 01:28 PM.
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Hemiroid]
#441993
08/18/09 02:00 PM
08/18/09 02:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
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You dont have a local machine shop to do any work for you? It takes very little time to test a few valve springs.
They probably wont charge you a dime if you take the spring to them. No need to take them all. Take 3-4 intake springs, and 3-4 exh springs.
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#441995
08/18/09 09:11 PM
08/18/09 09:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
CRE2004
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,503
Illinois
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Quote:
You dont have a local machine shop to do any work for you? It takes very little time to test a few valve springs.
They probably wont charge you a dime if you take the spring to them. No need to take them all. Take 3-4 intake springs, and 3-4 exh springs.
Just be sure you have the installed height and cam lift info with you otherwise it's a waste of time. 
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#441996
08/18/09 09:44 PM
08/18/09 09:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Quote:
I have a Muscle Motors built 474 stroker with Mopar Stage 6 heads and a Comp Cam .625 lift roller cam, Crane gold rockers (I'm pretty sure 1.5 ratio)
I am beginning to suspect that my valve springs are getting weak, the car is slowing both et and mph. It makes little or no difference if I shift (4-speed) at 5800 or 6500 rpm. I've experimented with timing, shift points, etc without much change. The motor is pretty old but with a small amount of runs/miles (meaning that it has sat a lot). I have heard that you need to relieve the pressure from the springs for lay-ups but have never done it.
I don't have the equipment to check the springs so I am thinking replacing them would be just as cheap as buying the tools.
My questions are:
1) What springs do I need (part numbers would really help)?
2) Does someone make a tool where I can charge the cylinder with air and remove/replace the springs?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
Check the springs. Buying tools is an investment in your garage and car. replacing springs that didn't need it is money out the window.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Bob_Coomer]
#441999
08/18/09 11:40 PM
08/18/09 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You dont have a local machine shop to do any work for you? It takes very little time to test a few valve springs.
They probably wont charge you a dime if you take the spring to them. No need to take them all. Take 3-4 intake springs, and 3-4 exh springs.
Just be sure you have the installed height and cam lift info with you otherwise it's a waste of time.
If he knows the part number of the springs shouldnt they be with in 10-15 lbs of list spec? just saying. 
Actually I don't have the part number of what's in the motor now. The paperwork I have just shows "Isky roller" listed for valve springs. I have no specs on them.
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#442000
08/18/09 11:54 PM
08/18/09 11:54 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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Some of the old(not the new ones like the toool room springs) Isky "roller" BB Mopar springs where pretty weak out of the boxes  200 to 225 lbs on the seats and barely 475 lbs open with .600 net lift set up to be within .060 of coil bind ,not worth a hoot,  IMO. Have some of yours checked before doing anything else, as already suggested  I have learned from some very good racers that more valve spring pressure(250LBs+ on the seats and 600LBS + over the nose) on roller cams and lifters is way better than not quite enough, especially in a drag race motor with heavy valves like most of our motors have 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#442002
08/19/09 10:26 AM
08/19/09 10:26 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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If you know your installed height, I would ask for Rod at Isky and see what he suggests.......tell him Dominic sent ya!
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Thumperdart]
#442003
08/19/09 10:41 AM
08/19/09 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
If you know your installed height, I would ask for Rod at Isky and see what he suggests.......tell him Dominic sent ya!
I was just trying to figure that out. How do you determine that, will measuring the old ones tell me?
Mike
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#442004
08/19/09 11:18 AM
08/19/09 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Some of the old(not the new ones like the toool room springs) Isky "roller" BB Mopar springs where pretty weak out of the boxes 200 to 225 lbs on the seats and barely 475 lbs open with .600 net lift set up to be within .060 of coil bind ,not worth a hoot, IMO. Have some of yours checked before doing anything else, as already suggested I have learned from some very good racers that more valve spring pressure(250LBs+ on the seats and 600LBS + over the nose) on roller cams and lifters is way better than not quite enough, especially in a drag race motor with heavy valves like most of our motors have
Cab, thanks for giving me a baseline on what I need. The old springs you speak of, is that what came on Stage 6 heads? I believe that may be what MM used.
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: Greg]
#442006
08/19/09 11:28 AM
08/19/09 11:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
mike67net
OP
mopar addict
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OP
mopar addict
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 726
ohio
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Quote:
Mike,
Where are you located in Ohio? I know a few guys that can help you.
I'm in northeast Ohio, 44026
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Re: Engine builders, I could use some advice
[Re: mike67net]
#442007
08/19/09 04:33 PM
08/19/09 04:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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If you don`t have a valve spring mike then you need to put a retainer and locks on the valve and crank up on w/your fingers and measure the distance from the head/spring cup to the bottom/inside of the retainer and shoot em that number.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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