Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its component
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#441953
08/19/09 12:13 PM
08/19/09 12:13 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
|
I'm going to guess that Bob meant a serious system as being a 2-stage, or port injected system.. I also guess a non-serious system would be more like a plate system that bolts under the carb..
I'm still a newbie and still learning how powerful and dangerous this stuff is... However I strongly recommend using a dyno to tune the A/F ratio.. its the easiest way to go..
Also, always play on the conservative side, its safer to start out small (100hp shot) and slowly work your way up, rather than trying to sort out a larger hit (200hp) right from the start.
I'm not sure if you read my recent thread from this last weekend of racing.. in the thread, I told how I purged the system using the micro-switch which caused the NO2 to sit in the bottom of the intake until I went to fire it up.. The back fire was so severe, it scared everyone around us and bent the throttle blades on the carb 70 degrees..
It could have easily hurt someone or broke the motor.. This stuff is some really serious chit and you must stay on top of it at every moment..
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its component
[Re: Jeepmon]
#441954
08/19/09 12:25 PM
08/19/09 12:25 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
|
Quote:
I'm going to guess that Bob meant a serious system as being a 2-stage, or port injected system.. I also guess a non-serious system would be more like a plate system that bolts under the carb..
I'm still a newbie and still learning how powerful and dangerous this stuff is... However I strongly recommend using a dyno to tune the A/F ratio.. its the easiest way to go..
Also, always play on the conservative side, its safer to start out small (100hp shot) and slowly work your way up, rather than trying to sort out a larger hit (200hp) right from the start.
I'm not sure if you read my recent thread from this last weekend of racing.. in the thread, I told how I purged the system using the micro-switch which caused the NO2 to sit in the bottom of the intake until I went to fire it up.. The back fire was so severe, it scared everyone around us and bent the throttle blades on the carb 70 degrees..
It could have easily hurt someone or broke the motor.. This stuff is some really serious chit and you must stay on top of it at every moment..
 No I have not read your post. That is some crazy stuff, bending the throttle blades like that. And I guess I should have specified I am going to use a plate system.
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#441955
08/19/09 12:38 PM
08/19/09 12:38 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
|
Quote:
What do you mean by serious nitrous system? I plan on using the nitrous every time I am at the race track. If that is what you are implying as serious, then I will gladly set up a fuel system with a return line.
For a plate system your pumps will be fine. What the return line deal does is keep fuel cooler and flowing and prevents deadheading which is exactly happens until the fuel solenoid opens for the N2o system. With the fuel pump running and the fuel stagnant the fuel in and around the pump and the pump begin to heat rapidly-not the best thing to happen. If you get a single pump with a return this won't happen. You could probably Y your two pumps together and use a return style regulator. I'm sure this would provide plenty of fuel for both the nitrous and the motor. You will need a second, non return style reg, for the nitrous side as the nitrous pressure will probably differ from the carb side.
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: 602heavy]
#441958
08/20/09 06:43 AM
08/20/09 06:43 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
OP
pro stock
|
OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
|
Quote:
The biggest mistake is jet spread & timing , get this right & you'll have a good time out there without busting parts up.
Forget the rule of thumb 2* per 50 shot , it don't work.
What do you recommend for timing retard then?
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: blownzoom440]
#441959
08/20/09 09:20 AM
08/20/09 09:20 AM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
|
Quote:
i was discussing multi stage kits to keep the acceleration rate down track almost as much as the 1st 1/8 keeping the tires planted much like the boosted turbo cars.have you guys burned the plug tips much?
When you nip a plug something is wrong and it's usually the timing is too far advanced. Also, there may well be piston damage that will show it's ugly face somewhere down the line. EVERY time we burned a plug a compression test on that hole reveals other damage. What normally happens is you pinch/lift a ring land and this messes up the ring seal.
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#441960
08/20/09 11:29 AM
08/20/09 11:29 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
|
Quote:
What do you recommend for timing retard then?
You gotta be careful with some of those plate systems out there , especially the Nos & edelbrooke systems , these kits are just too fat , i run the NX system which gives pretty good baseline #s , as regards timing figures i can't say as i don't know your set up , i pull around 12* for a 200 shot , tis always better to pull too much spark lead than not enough when dialing the motor in , pulling plugs will tell you exactly what the motor wants , also a colder plug is safer than a hotter plug till you get dialed in.
Some guys will run too fat & overtime the motor , leaner is safer as the motor will slow down before parts get busted up , if you treat this stuff with respect then the motor will live a long & happy life.
NGK plugs are a lot more forgiving if you happen to loose a ground strap , unlike other brands wherby it could hole a piston.
Last edited by 602heavy; 08/20/09 11:45 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its component
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#441962
08/20/09 01:03 PM
08/20/09 01:03 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
Jeepmon
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,094
Sunnyvale, CA
|
This is why I recommended using a dyno to tune the A/F... After the first hit or two, we knew which direction we needed to go with the jetting and after about 5 or 6 runs, we pretty much had it dialed in..
Another advantage to having the dyno, at least in my case is, the dyno operators were schooled on Nitrous and not only did I get to use their machine, but I also got to pick their brain for some valuable information..
On a side note, I was at the chassis dyno shop pretty much all day, spend almost a full 8 hours on the machine and since I was the one wrenching and making all the changes, they only charged me half price which was a considerable savings..
Also, I started out with the MSD 6AL box and manually decreased the timing.. Since then I went to the MSD 6 Digital box, which has a rotary switch to decrease the timing when the nitrous system is activated..
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: 602heavy]
#441963
08/20/09 01:03 PM
08/20/09 01:03 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
BobR
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
|
Quote:
Quote:
What do you recommend for timing retard then?
You gotta be careful with some of those plate systems out there , especially the Nos & edelbrooke systems , these kits are just too fat , i run the NX system which gives pretty good baseline #s , as regards timing figures i can't say as i don't know your set up , i pull around 12* for a 200 shot , tis always better to pull too much spark lead than not enough when dialing the motor in , pulling plugs will tell you exactly what the motor wants , also a colder plug is safer than a hotter plug till you get dialed in.
Some guys will run too fat & overtime the motor , leaner is safer as the motor will slow down before parts get busted up , if you treat this stuff with respect then the motor will live a long & happy life.
NGK plugs are a lot more forgiving if you happen to loose a ground strap , unlike other brands wherby it could hole a piston.
This guy be havin some N2O sperience!
|
|
|
Re: Safe and Effective Nitrous System and its components?
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#441964
08/20/09 01:22 PM
08/20/09 01:22 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
|
I always prefer the wider lobe seps when running nitrous , less charge gets pushed out the ex on O/L plus the fact a wider lobe sep will help get the spent gasses out earlier , i ran a similar cam & CR to what you've posted & picked up a few tenths by advancing the cam a few degrees , you may of faired better if you went with a 114/116* lobe sep , as regards timing #s i would start off pulling 8* with a 150 shot & work from there , i used to run a cheater plate & reversed the nitrous fuel jet with 5.5lbs fuel pressure , i also ran a seperate fuel pump dedicated to the nitrous , a fuel pressure switch should be fitted to shut the system down when low/no fuel is detected , you will get varried opinions on this which makes for interesting reading , plenty ways to skin a cat.
|
|
|
|
|
