ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion combination 500" stroker
#440594
08/17/09 08:06 AM
08/17/09 08:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,990 , PA
sleepyhead416
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Speedomotive 500" short block, Indy EZ heads 76cc, (I could change these)Comp Cam HYD cam .525 lift,Victor 440 singe plain intake,Holley 770 cfm,TTI 2" headers. This will be in a mostley street driven e-body 4speed 3.91 geared ride. What would u change if u could he'd like to keep pump gas.
Last edited by sleepyhead416; 08/17/09 03:24 PM.
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion on combination
[Re: LAR_414]
#440599
08/17/09 10:17 AM
08/17/09 10:17 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
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Quote:
If you are going to drive on the Street a ton, I'd keep the port velocity high to make for a nice 4 speed drive at low rpms!
But if your building a big engine you would not only want it to respond at low rpms but through out the whole power range,if not than why build,stay with a stock 440.That's why I suggested that build the combo that will perform low,mid and topend and adjust the drivability with cam timing and tuning.Why have a "Big Dog "if your gonna muzzle and keep him chained.
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion on combination
[Re: RyanJ]
#440601
08/17/09 03:25 PM
08/17/09 03:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,990 , PA
sleepyhead416
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, PA
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion combination 500" stroker
[Re: sleepyhead416]
#440602
08/17/09 05:08 PM
08/17/09 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,015 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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This will be in a mostley street driven
IMHO stock size ports will be the best. They will keep up till 5,000 + rpm. Cam choice should also dictate a closing intake point no greater than about 45 degrees abdc to put the torque down low where a street stick car needs it. Another point about the heads. With the stock window size, peak torque can be produced at 4100 rpm, peak hp at 5600 rpm if parts are chosen properly. Obviously, you can move this around a tad, but that is the "sweet spot" for a stock port window 500 cube deal. Go to a Max wedge port, and it will move up 1000 rpm. I have been there and done that. Car didn't go faster till I raised the rpm a bunch from where I ran it with the stock ported cast iron heads. Edit; did the math on RYANJs cam. It has an intake close of 45 degrees!
Last edited by gregsdart; 08/17/09 05:11 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion combination 500" stroker
[Re: gregsdart]
#440604
08/17/09 06:33 PM
08/17/09 06:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
This will be in a mostley street driven
IMHO stock size ports will be the best. They will keep up till 5,000 + rpm. Cam choice should also dictate a closing intake point no greater than about 45 degrees abdc to put the torque down low where a street stick car needs it. Another point about the heads. With the stock window size, peak torque can be produced at 4100 rpm, peak hp at 5600 rpm if parts are chosen properly. Obviously, you can move this around a tad, but that is the "sweet spot" for a stock port window 500 cube deal. Go to a Max wedge port, and it will move up 1000 rpm. I have been there and done that. Car didn't go faster till I raised the rpm a bunch from where I ran it with the stock ported cast iron heads. Edit; did the math on RYANJs cam. It has an intake close of 45 degrees!
LOL Guess we think similar on cams.
I am completely new to BB's as this is first one I've ever built, but after running mine around on street for last 1000 miles, I can say for sure, there is no reason what so ever not to run a MW port entrance, even with stock CID motor this thing has tons of TQ/low speed power. I guess if you want to run a bone stock 1500 RPM converter then maybe not, but anything with any semblence of converter (I have 3K), the MW is not hurting anything. Mine is 9.7:1 & I run it on 87 octane.... It's as tame as a kitten, & with the 750 it is extremely responsive. It's more lazy when I have put 900 or 950 carb on it & did'nt really make any more power. There is no way I'd do 500 inches with non MW port, maybe for a motorhome motor or something, that I wanted off-idle TQ to pull car trailer over mountains etc. My EZ-1's after hand blend ended up at 286 CC with a Ferrea 6000 valve.
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion on combination
[Re: Sport440]
#440605
08/17/09 06:57 PM
08/17/09 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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you got kind of a mish-mosh there but the EZ's can be opened to MW pretty easily,(later if you prefer) not the best choice for standard "906" port window power but will be good enough for what you're doing with a sharp VJ and try to wake up your .200-400 lift numbers a tad. If it were me I'd go with the old MW -1 (Regular Indy with the better exhaust port) and an Indy 440-2D, (A VERY UNDER-RATED INTAKE IMHO) I've built 8 500" B & RB motors and it's really the best AFFORDABLE combo for a dual purpose mid geared car. You'll want a D-DISH for about a 10.5 TO 10.8:1 STATIC CR with zero deck and .037 quench with a closed chamber. You can run more with the right build but this will get you close enough to optimum power without upset....provided you run a very good cooling system. there's a lot more power in the 2-D with some judicious porting, with a hydraulic cam you're not going to be spinning it high enough where a single plane is going to pay you back with more top end power to offeet the throttle response and upper bottom on up shove in the back. Carb is too small...., I'd go 850 minimum and a 950 or 1000HP 4150 won't be too big. my on the port size, I agree with ryan on the MW...to a point.....if you've got about 3800 stall or a 4 speed than it's a great/best way to go, with an Auto with less gear and tigher stall the best port window I've found is about 3.25" which is roughly 2.375" x 1.375" with an equivalently ported Street dominator intake that flows about 310-315 cfm, I'd be real tempted to get a set of Jeff's Modern Eddies for a typical 10:1 3.55 geared 500 motor. The port window I mentioned takes some work (you need to make your own gaskets cause the valley pan ports won't work that big. Comp 305 is a very decent default cam for a street 500, no issues with it, if you're going to stay with a Hydraulic you could do a lot worse. I'd look at a Bullet/UD in the mid 255 range 108 split, ~104 ICL, but with about .040-.050 more lift. You can sactually put the cam in straight up with a standard port but with the bigger head the extra 4 degrees advance will make it a bit more responsive all around. 2" by 3 1/2" header Are you hard sold on the Speed o motive? Not sure what bottom end components they use, I prefer to Cherry pick the parts. On a 4 speed RB I think I'd go for a 7.100 rod for a little less side loading, actually to be honest in a 4 speed car I think I'd just build a 3.90 stroke 470 and have a few hundred more revs up top for the same combo and save the crank $$$ (offset grind vs a new crank) and put the $$$ I saved into the heads. My is a good 470 (especially a low deck) will go toe to toe with an equivalent 4.15 stroke 493, at least the way I like to build them anyway. here's my latest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd8GeXYYkKUThis car has had so many BIG block motors (strokers, blowers and std 440's) in it I should use Clevis pins instead of bolts for the motor mounts! This one's THE ONE for me though, the next motor that goes in this one will be the ornginal 440 as a resto....but I can assure you that ain't gonna be any time soon!!!
Last edited by Streetwize; 08/17/09 07:08 PM.
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion combination 500" stroker
[Re: sleepyhead416]
#440607
08/17/09 09:50 PM
08/17/09 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 31,061 Oregon
AndyF
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I wrote a whole book on this subject.
Last edited by AndyF; 08/17/09 10:54 PM.
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion on combination
[Re: gregsdart]
#440608
08/17/09 11:09 PM
08/17/09 11:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,881 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
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Greg, Yeah I guess I'd like to know more about the bottom end....what I was saying about a 470 is that sometimes it's a good trade with a 4 speed to give away a little bottom end (keep you from overpowering the tires) and trade it for the same amount of power a bit higher inthe powerband....but a lot of that depends on the bottom end components and how free revving it is. I've seen a fair number of both heavy and light Bobweights in the 493 (4.15 stroke) range. The 'Old school' 493 4.15" stroke was chosen by Mopar based on being able to use a factory 400 piston with a 440 6.76" LY rod. It's an off the shelf combo and perfect for somebody who just wants a cheap torque mule but it's a bit heavy down below and (with cast slugs) not something you want to rev very high....then again you don't need to. I don't know what the speed-o-motive kit is based on, my preference in the RB is a 4.25" crank with the BBC journals, it's actually an easier build but maybe that's just me. I'm slowly getting all the parts for the 4 speed to go back in my charger, My die-hard Ford buddy admittedto me this thing revs faster than a Boss 302. To wit I said,,,,,Duhh!!
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Re: ENGINE GURU'S Need opinion on combination
[Re: Streetwize]
#440609
08/18/09 10:28 AM
08/18/09 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,547 State College, PA
RyanJ
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Quote:
the EZ's can be opened to MW pretty easily,(later if you prefer) not the best choice for standard "906" port window power but will be good enough for what you're doing with a sharp VJ and try to wake up your .200-400 lift numbers a tad.
That's exactly what I did on my EZ's, everything I did was designed for the .200-.500" # & threw the rest out the window. The Ferrea valve, puts up better low/mid #'s than the ICH valves, the degree & width of BC, the seat angles/wdiths/ Throat area & shape of ST all setup for low/mid lift.
My #'s:
.100"--73.7 .200"--158.8 .300"--233.4 .400"--282.2 .450"--309.7 .500"--326.7 .550"--336.7
I'd have to dig through my sheets but a MCH CNC E head @ .700" goes around 322ish on my bench, I think the .500" # is around 300. Granted it's a 255 CC, much smaller port.... But Like I said I have not seen any laziness out of the 286 CC EZ-1's on the 3.75" motor even with 3000 stall & 3.23 gear. I spent many sleepless nights worrying about which head to run & how much port size, before I bought them.
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