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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44056
07/17/07 11:25 AM
07/17/07 11:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,609
Southern Cal
Noblewk
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Southern Cal
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A few differences between this and the MOPAR 402 (406) Crate motor. The big one is the actual heads, the MOPAR SB Crate motors are now comming with the R/T Magnum Heads which flow better then the regular Magnum Heads. As you already mentioned is the Roller Cam.
The big plus I see with the Blueprint motors are the Warrenty. Mopar offers none.....
66 Dart GT, 402 11.18:109 Best
63 1/2 Galaxie 500XL 406 4Speed 13.20:103 Best
2000 Ram
2005 Durango Hemi.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: Andrewh]
#44066
08/15/07 04:34 PM
08/15/07 04:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
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I was going to say.. Ther's no way they sell that dyno'd, if it comes that way. No plugs, no wires, no distributor, no water pump or fuel pump... I dont think so. They send you a dyno sheet for an egnien built with your specs. It cant be dyno tuned, then all the parts removed. (Ok, I know dyno fuel is no always pumped, nor is it hard to get ignition/carbs on and off. But a water pump? No crank pulley? Smells wrong to me. And. I wouldnt put hypers in a 4" arm engine, even with "Mopar large beam rods". (prob stock..) My opinion, they do good work, but things dont smell right. You should be able to get a buyilder to build you a better engine for a little more cash. It's no real bargain looking at the parts list. Fucntional. But nothing crazy. Really, a 360 with that cam listed should make close to 400hp. Nevermind a 408.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44070
08/15/07 05:08 PM
08/15/07 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Some of the above list you might not need or have to get, but I just assume do it once and do it right... (although the autozone alternator failed on the trip to the nats) As far as the motor - general impressions: 1. It comes in a wooden crate (not as nice as the plastic crates the MP ones come in) 2. They used RTV on the oil pan and intake and did a somewhat sloppy job 3. They did not include the bolts needed to attach the water pump (I had to buy them as well) 4. The oil pan looks like a bunch of "patch" work on a stock pan - like no one could bend metal - only weld... - could have been done cleaner. 5. The timing marks on the balancer are on the wrong side, the small tick marks are away from the marker not close to it 6. Mine was an '86 block and the motor mount bolts were not long enough, the mounting bosses were larger on this block for some reason - just went the the hardware store and got longer ones... 7. It uses a magnum air gap manifold which uses the new (smaller) thermostat - they do not include the thermostat or the housing 8. The bypass hose fitting they give you does not work - it kinks the hose, I had to have one specially made... 9. The bolts for the intake are not long enough to hold the manifold and the throttle bracket (again back to the hardware store) 10. They did not put anything on the openenings durring shipping, no tape on carb flange, no plugs, nothing in exhust port, nothing in the distrbutor hole... it did have a bag on the top of the motor. 11. I comes with a lot of pipe plugs plugging some of the stuff you need, oil pressure sending unit, heater hoses, temp sender, etc... 12. The intake and timing chain cover were not painted (actually I like the look now that I am use to it). 13. It did NOT come with any oil filter adaptor, you need to have one for the straght or angled filter (by the way make SURE the oil filter is on before priming the motor  ). 14. It came at top dead center zeroed out for you, but I still mananged to have the the dist 180 out...  15. Mine had an exhaust bolt hole helicoiled 16. They painted the exhaust flange - I had to sand it back off
Last edited by 6T6Cuda; 08/15/07 05:43 PM.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: Andrewh]
#44072
08/15/07 05:48 PM
08/15/07 05:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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I gave you a complete break down of what I spent in the above post...
Is it worth it... Not sure, we will see when it is running well... - right not it is not running real well.
I have a 300 HP 360 crate in my other car, I had much less trouble dialing it in, but I am very happy with it (it was only $3000 then, now it is 4500, but it comes with the RT heads).
If I was not so pressed to get the car to the nats, I would have built my own, and it would have cost a bit more, but would be a better and a true blueprinted motor...
As far as brackets, I used what was on the car orig, which was a mess, they still do not "quite" line up... but they never did, good enough for now....
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: Andrewh]
#44075
08/16/07 10:00 AM
08/16/07 10:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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Still interesting. The helicoil is a std repair, I wouldnt call that a bad thing. But all the incidentals that were missing, but the engine was run? Seems like they must have a shelf of "break in" parts for small block mopars? I still dont think they run it. I know the same parts that go on it to dyno, or are needed to stick it on a running stand like I have, would all have to be pulled to not be included. Why would they do that? As long as you are satisfied, they did fine by you. I dont think I would be if I were in your position, disregarding how it runs for you right now.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: moper]
#44076
08/16/07 10:47 AM
08/16/07 10:47 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Ya, it is not a bad deal for what it is, If I built it it would be about the same price or a bit more, but it would be a much better motor...
The reason I got it was because of time... I needed a motor for the nats and this fit the bill and I could have it in and running in a few weeks..
If I did not have that constraint, I would have done something else. I would have built one, the MP motor is not that great as well, about the same as the blueprint motor except the MP one has the RT heads and a roller cam.
The best thing to do would be to start with a Magnum block and build your own stroker - that would be the best of both worlds... - you get the magnum heads and the roller setup...
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44080
08/16/07 11:02 AM
08/16/07 11:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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" ""Radiator: 170 (Summit 27" aluminum + friend welded brackets on)
* Headers (Dynomax ceramic coated): $300
* Exhaust
** $200 for jegs kit which did not fit at all (e body)
** $350 for Midas to screw it all up very bad and it still is not right, but it is on the car.
** ??? to get it done right...
* 360 Flywheel: 300
* Clutch: 200
* Trans Rebuild: 300
* Distributor: $40 (stock from Autozone)
* Bell housing alignment pins (3 sets): $60
* Breather asy: 15
* Recomened plugs: $40
* Plug wires:
* Cap:
* Rotor:
""
I don't get it.
None of this is their responsibility and you have no reason to fault anyone for your deciding to spend money on this. If you are swapping engines you always have to buy the small stuff. If you are swapping from a smaller to a bigger engine you always have to buy stuff that suits the bigger engine. that's just the way it is. Even swapping from a bone-stock 318 to a bone-stock 360 you still have things to buy.
Re: Dyno testing - It makes perfect sense to me that they would have a "kit" of parts to put on an engine to run it on the dyno. Fuel comes from the hose in the dyno area, dyno exhaust system, carb, distributor, wires etc, water pump and pullies or else fittings that mount to the engine, put it on the dyno and run it a half hour, after the breakin run 5 points or so and call it good.
Now look at the machine work that you will pay extra for in your "home rebuild"
Square decks
Align hone mains
Cylinder wall thickness test
Computer hone
Rotating assembly balanced
A lot of this stuff is a lot cheaper for them because they rebuild thousands of engines a year, and I wouldn't bet my life on everything being exactly as good as a talented machinist could do working one engine at a time. But, just trying to get a decent reground crank is turning out to be a problem in another engine build that I am putting together. The point is many of you don't have the facilities close to do the machine work, and you don't know how good your local machine work will be either.
As for the Mopar crate engines, since when did THEY become models of correctness? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count all the threads about how "Mopar crate engines are junk" and how you have to take it all apart and correct all the problems before you even dare to run it, and besides NO WARRANTY!!! Certainly not a 3-year 50,000 mile warranty.
Blueprint Engines is not related to me, I have no stock in the company and know no one involved. I should dislike them because they're from Nebraska and I live in Colorado, but even the most rabid Nebraska-hater has to admit that for the most part, people who live in that state are honest and straight. So I hate to see someone unload all sorts of peevishness on people that have what appears to be decent products and business practices.
If I get anywhere close to their facility, I will try to arrange a plant tour. Rapid Robert probably could visit them more easily.
R.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: dogdays]
#44081
08/16/07 11:48 AM
08/16/07 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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I did not say anything bad about blueprint engines, I think it is a great deal for what it is...
The person above wanted to know the "true" cost of swapping the motor so I gave him a detailed brake down of everything I had to buy for the swap. Overall I was not upset about what was included, just wanted to let him know what is included so he can make a decision. I would have expected the water pump to be included and possibly the distributor (like MP includes), but it was clearly stated they were not included (and I knew that), but this is something to consider when comparing the different options.
My decision came down to this, with the given cost and the time I had, the blueprint engines was the best choice, if time was not an issue I would have liked to build up my own motor.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate mot
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44083
08/16/07 12:37 PM
08/16/07 12:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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I'll stand with what I said, until proven otherwise. I'm basing that on my experience, and on what they provide for detail. I know enough about dyno stuff to see what everyone else that does dyno engines would leave in place after. Usually you'll get the water pump with it, plugs in it, the by pass hose, stuff like that. That's assuming the usual dyno carb, dyno distributor and wires, headers/exhaust, pulleys, and fuel from the metered line. They have to drain all fluids for shipment. I don't think I'm not taking a cheap shot. It's public domain, and I'm carefully looking at what they provide for info. Just stating what raises red flags with my semi educated eye, and what the listing of parts tells me. It's missing things that any dyno equipped shop I know of would leave in place. You dont take out spark plugs, or thermostats, or by pass hoses. You dont leave wide open holes into chambers or the crank case for shipment. It is built using parts which again, IMO, are less than adequate for the market segment it's aimed at (general performance engine buyer) but definately inexpensive. I'm a glass half empty type when it comes to internet sales. Experience has taught me that. Nothing personal. Just my opinion that aint worth much to anyone but me...lol. 
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44084
08/24/07 09:30 PM
08/24/07 09:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Someone PM me about my opinions about the motor so here is the latest update:
Hello,
Right now the post saids it all...
No, I have not gotten it running well....
I am not sure if it is the Edelbrock 750 they recomend or the dirt in my fuel tank or some combination of both (which I did not know unitl I put a clear fuel filter on the new motor) - I would not have intentally done this...)...
I would recomend, starting with a new ignition system before trying to debug an old one... - moeny well spent...
It is difficult to get the timming curve they recomend 16* initial and 34* total - most have about 24* of mechanical - so some major recurving is needed...
Would I buy another one, not sure, I would build my own if I had time, but if that is not an option it is a decent setup;
Things I did not like:
1. Somewhat unsure tech support, they sounded good but some specific questions they could only answer what was "in the book" - you somewhat expect that with a bigger company; for example it took being on hold and two different calls for them to tell me what flywheel I need, they told me all kinds of stuff - everthing from the ballance weights come with the engine (what?? - I have a flywheel - should I weld them on??) to it is neutral, to it is externally ballance, then no one could tell me how much inballance it needed...
2. The did not tape up the holes when shipping - it was wrapped in a bag, but a big hole for the dist open was a bit worrysome.
3. They bore the block out to 0.04" - this is very close to the service limit, it could not be rebuilt again...
4. It is externally ballanced and I am not sure if it is because mine is not running well, or it is not ballanced real well... - I assumed they used lighter pistons, yet stuck with the stock LA 360 ballance...
BTW:
1. Don't forget to add tax and shipping to the total price...
2. They did not include any oil filter adaptor (you can not screw in an oil filter on the motor)
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44086
11/28/09 10:28 AM
11/28/09 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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IIRC .. there was a topic about this place before ..... Read this link to their site .... http://www.blueprintengines.com/about/index.htmlSo these people claim that they have build over TWENTY SEVEN engines PER DAY ...for EVERY DAY for 20 years......  IF you believe this ...I have a "BRIDGE" for you. 
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: 6T6Cuda]
#44087
11/28/09 10:41 AM
11/28/09 10:41 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
With the season "over" and me destroying the clutch in my car, along with this engine still not running right, I decided to pull the motor...
I did a leakdown on the even cyls - all read about 20% (80% leakage at 15 psi) and were leaking out the oil pan. Engine was not hot (because I had parts taken off), so that will make a difference.
All the plugs had oil on the ends of the threads, that coupled with a PM I got from someone about the springs I decided to pull the motor and blueprint it (at least go through it and know what I got).
I have the motor torn apart and here is what I have noticed:
1. The cam appears good (yeah)...
2. The lifters were all marked with white paint to ensure they are rotating
3. They weighted and the con-rods were ground to match weight (the weight was marked on them)
4. All the rods were color coded marked
5. The block & crank was numbered (mine was 36 I think) with a sharpie
6. They drilled a LOT of metal out of the crank... - all that to externally balance the engine???
7. Noticed a slight mark along the direction of the pistons (no deeper then the hash marks) on most of the cylinders.
8. Some ware marks at the bottom of the cylinder for some of the cyls.
Going through the heads next...
More updates to follow.
Hi Rick,
Wow I see you pulled it apart.
Would be happy to help you check out any of it. I have all the needed tools for engine assy.
Let me know, do you need the flywheel machined? We can figure out the bobweights too if you want to check the engine balance.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#44088
11/28/09 05:41 PM
11/28/09 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
top fuel
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
Quote:
With the season "over" and me destroying the clutch in my car, along with this engine still not running right, I decided to pull the motor...
I did a leakdown on the even cyls - all read about 20% (80% leakage at 15 psi) and were leaking out the oil pan. Engine was not hot (because I had parts taken off), so that will make a difference.
All the plugs had oil on the ends of the threads, that coupled with a PM I got from someone about the springs I decided to pull the motor and blueprint it (at least go through it and know what I got).
I have the motor torn apart and here is what I have noticed:
1. The cam appears good (yeah)...
2. The lifters were all marked with white paint to ensure they are rotating
3. They weighted and the con-rods were ground to match weight (the weight was marked on them)
4. All the rods were color coded marked
5. The block & crank was numbered (mine was 36 I think) with a sharpie
6. They drilled a LOT of metal out of the crank... - all that to externally balance the engine???
7. Noticed a slight mark along the direction of the pistons (no deeper then the hash marks) on most of the cylinders.
8. Some ware marks at the bottom of the cylinder for some of the cyls.
Going through the heads next...
More updates to follow.
Hi Rick,
Wow I see you pulled it apart.
Would be happy to help you check out any of it. I have all the needed tools for engine assy.
Let me know, do you need the flywheel machined? We can figure out the bobweights too if you want to check the engine balance.
Gary, I might take you up on the flywheel part...
So far found nothing "that bad" which is bad I was hopping for a real bad valve guide or something...
I may replace the springs because what I understand they are not good for the lift of the cam.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: FurryStump]
#44093
11/30/09 09:18 AM
11/30/09 09:18 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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Here is my drama i had with blue printed crate engines. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...t=2#Post4808386Also on top of this. I had a value spring break while i was idlig at a light. thank god i shut it done once i heard the rocker getting loose. i brought the heads to my machinst too take a look. All the guides were too big "worn" Plus the valve springs were way too weak for the cam they put in. The problem with blue-printed crate engines is that they didn't stand by their work.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: 540challenger]
#44095
01/25/10 11:34 PM
01/25/10 11:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Well, I tore the engine down this winter... Here is a short summery:
1. I was impressed, all the rods had weight numbers on them, and they were "ground" on the ends to make them balanced.
2. The crank had some VERY deep holes in it to "externally" balance the thing, so much that I would "think" they could have internally balanced the motor but I don't know...
3. My #2 intake and exhaust had a nick in them, at first I thought it was just on the seat, but after cleaning the valves I found it on the valves as well - this might have contributed to my issues.
4. THEY HAD THE WRONG RINGS IN THE MOTOR: it use KB 356 (http://www.kb-silvolite.com/test/kb_car/performance.php?action=details&P_id=23) which call for 5/64 rings, but they had 1/16 rings installed! they were loose in the bores
5. They grind down the shafts of the valves & install very thin brass bushings for valve guides, so they are "[Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]" size so you can not get valves, or replace the guides...
6. I replaced all the bearings, the cam bearings were flaking off before removing the cam. I found bearing chunks in the bottom of the oil pan. When the machine shop went to install the cam it would not fit on the last bearing and the cam had to have 0.001 taken off the end, it appears that they just jammed it in and scraped the cam bearings until it fit - leading to a lot of material scraped off.
7. The block was heavily notched (required when running stock rods) & appeared to use stock bolts.
I don't know what to think, the valve nick issue (which could have been due to something going through the motor), the cam issue and the rings being wrong has me worried about the motor...
Glad I went though it...
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#44097
01/26/10 01:25 PM
01/26/10 01:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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That's too bad. At least it's apart and getting fixed. On the inserts... check the stem size of the valve. They may have just run 11/32 valves with liners... That's pretty normal. However I have seen mass rebuilders taht cut down valves and ran liners for in-between sizes. That's not ok because they cut away the hardness from the outer material on the valve stem and they wear out like mad. You can see the step down on the valve stem near the head on those usually. If the pistons were KB hypers, the ring gap isnt bad (I know the width was wrong...). If they are forged, the gap was a bit wide too.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: Anyone use one of the "blueprint engines" crate motors?
[Re: moper]
#44098
02/26/10 12:15 PM
02/26/10 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
6T6Cuda
OP
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OP
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,344
Cincinnati, OH
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Quote:
That's too bad. At least it's apart and getting fixed. On the inserts... check the stem size of the valve. They may have just run 11/32 valves with liners... That's pretty normal. However I have seen mass rebuilders taht cut down valves and ran liners for in-between sizes. That's not ok because they cut away the hardness from the outer material on the valve stem and they wear out like mad. You can see the step down on the valve stem near the head on those usually. If the pistons were KB hypers, the ring gap isnt bad (I know the width was wrong...). If they are forged, the gap was a bit wide too.
They were cut down... and some in between size...
The pistons are hypers, and within the KB spec
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