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LM1 and E85???? #426112
08/02/09 11:01 AM
08/02/09 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,491
S.L . MI
clutch Offline OP
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What is a good target A/F to shoot for on a LM1 running E85

Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: clutch] #426113
08/02/09 11:42 AM
08/02/09 11:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,698
NE Oklahoma
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Von Offline
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NE Oklahoma
Here is a Lambda chart...

Lambda E85 AFR Gas AFR
0.500 4.880 7.350
0.510 4.978 7.497
0.520 5.075 7.644
0.530 5.173 7.791
0.540 5.270 7.938
0.550 5.368 8.085
0.560 5.466 8.232
0.570 5.563 8.379
0.580 5.661 8.526
0.590 5.758 8.673
0.600 5.856 8.820
0.610 5.954 8.967
0.620 6.051 9.114
0.630 6.149 9.261
0.640 6.246 9.408
0.650 6.344 9.555
0.660 6.442 9.702
0.670 6.539 9.849
0.680 6.637 9.996
0.690 6.734 10.143
0.700 6.832 10.290
0.710 6.930 10.437
0.720 7.027 10.584
0.730 7.125 10.731
0.740 7.222 10.878
0.750 7.320 11.025
0.760 7.418 11.172
0.770 7.515 11.319
0.780 7.613 11.466
0.790 7.710 11.613
0.800 7.808 11.760
0.810 7.906 11.907
0.820 8.003 12.054
0.830 8.101 12.201
0.840 8.198 12.348
0.850 8.296 12.495
0.860 8.394 12.642
0.870 8.491 12.789
0.880 8.589 12.936
0.890 8.686 13.083
0.900 8.784 13.230
0.910 8.882 13.377
0.920 8.979 13.524
0.930 9.077 13.671
0.940 9.174 13.818
0.950 9.272 13.965
0.960 9.370 14.112
0.970 9.467 14.259
0.980 9.565 14.406
0.990 9.662 14.553
1.000 9.760 14.700
1.010 9.858 14.847
1.020 9.955 14.994
1.030 10.053 15.141
1.040 10.150 15.288
1.050 10.248 15.435
1.060 10.346 15.582
1.070 10.443 15.729
1.080 10.541 15.876
1.090 10.638 16.023
1.100 10.736 16.170
1.110 10.834 16.317
1.120 10.931 16.464
1.130 11.029 16.611
1.140 11.126 16.758
1.150 11.224 16.905
1.160 11.322 17.052
1.170 11.419 17.199
1.180 11.517 17.346
1.190 11.614 17.493
1.200 11.712 17.640
1.210 11.810 17.787
1.220 11.907 17.934
1.230 12.005 18.081
1.240 12.102 18.228
1.250 12.200 18.375
1.260 12.298 18.522
1.270 12.395 18.669
1.280 12.493 18.816
1.290 12.590 18.963
1.300 12.688 19.110
1.310 12.786 19.257
1.320 12.883 19.404
1.330 12.981 19.551
1.340 13.078 19.698
1.350 13.176 19.845
1.360 13.274 19.992
1.370 13.371 20.139
1.380 13.469 20.286
1.390 13.566 20.433
1.400 13.664 20.580
1.410 13.762 20.727
1.420 13.859 20.874
1.430 13.957 21.021
1.440 14.054 21.168
1.450 14.152 21.315
1.460 14.250 21.462
1.470 14.347 21.609
1.480 14.445 21.756
1.490 14.542 21.903
1.500 14.640 22.050

Around .80-.85ish seems to be what you want to shoot for (So far my car has liked .82), so around 12 on AFR.


72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.
Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: clutch] #426114
08/02/09 12:01 PM
08/02/09 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 59
Sacramento, Ca
S
sanger440 Offline
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Sacramento, Ca
I was researching this a while back since I will be tuning a car this winter. I found a few articles that discussed the fact that O2 meters are reading a Lambda value and converting it to AFR on your readout. Long story short, you can just leave the device set to read AFR for gasoline and tune E85 using the same values as you would for gasoline.

Here is one article discussing this:
Lamdba_E85_discussion

Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: sanger440] #426115
08/02/09 03:44 PM
08/02/09 03:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,491
S.L . MI
clutch Offline OP
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So looking at the scale if I tune it to the same AFR on the gas scale around 12.8-9 it should get me in the ball park ???

Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: clutch] #426116
08/02/09 05:49 PM
08/02/09 05:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 59
Sacramento, Ca
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sanger440 Offline
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Sacramento, Ca
I do not own a LM-1, I actually use a Tech Edge unit I built years ago. Looking at the LM-1 manual page 12 looks like you can choose your fuel type, maybe E85 is there. You can also program the LM-1 for your fuel type using the values posted above (assuming they are correct).

But I ran across an article somewhere on turbomustangs.com (I cannot find it now) that said for the widebands that only have gasoline AFR readouts, it will still work fine for E85 because all widebands are based on Lambda.

So to answer your question, if you tune to 12.8 using the gasoline AFR readouts when burning E85, you should be in the ball park.

But full disclosure: I have not tried this yet. I have only tuned gasoline burning racecars so far. But from what I have read, the math makes sense. You might want to call Innovative or wait for someone else to chime in.

Here is a link to the LM-1 manual: LM1_MANUAL

Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: sanger440] #426117
08/02/09 05:59 PM
08/02/09 05:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,491
S.L . MI
clutch Offline OP
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So if I error to the rich side I should be ok and then lean it out slowlly from there.

Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: clutch] #426118
08/02/09 06:07 PM
08/02/09 06:07 PM
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Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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CJK440 Offline
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Ansonia, CT
This confused the heck out of me a while back because I was wondering what I should be shooting for with our 10% ethanol pump gas.

The outcome was that lambda is lambda no mater what fuel you use and 1.0 Lambda is stoic. If you change the fuel type in the system, all you are doing is changing the conversion factor. If you leave it set to gasoline, and run a different fuel, you tune just like there was gas in the tank.


2017 Contusion Blue Challenger T/A 392 M6 "BLKNBLU"
Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: Von] #426119
08/02/09 08:07 PM
08/02/09 08:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim Offline
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440Jim  Offline
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Posts: 16,925
NC
Quote:

Around .80-.85ish seems to be what you want to shoot for (So far my car has liked .82), so around 12 on AFR.


That is a great starting point. I am currently running 12.3 on the gasoline scale (0.83 Lambda).

After that, tune with the timeslip to see what your engine/combo likes the best. E85 is very forgiving and I have run 0.79-0.90 Lambda (naturally aspirated) with no problems.


1993 Daytona, 5.50 at 130mph (1/8) 1.19 sixty ft (PG). Link to 572 B1 - Part 1
Re: LM1 and E85???? [Re: 440Jim] #426120
08/03/09 09:38 AM
08/03/09 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,491
S.L . MI
clutch Offline OP
pro stock
clutch  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,491
S.L . MI
Thanks for everyones help in pointing me in the right direction







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