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Bad day installing motor - need some advise
#425818
08/01/09 09:31 PM
08/01/09 09:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 753
San Diego, CA
brktracr
OP
super street
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OP
super street
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 753
San Diego, CA
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A little long, sorry for that. Installed the 528" in the Duster today. Everything fit except they sent the wrong gilmer belt for the vacuum pump. Primed the motor, hit 60 lbs of oil press. Stuck the distributor in and fired it up. When it first started it was 60 lbs cold, then as the temp started going up, the pressure kept dropping until it was at 25 lbs idling when it hit about 180*. We put straight 30w "off road" with zinc for the break in. Let the motor cool off, fired it again and it was at 20 lbs idling at 1200 rpm. This pressure with a high pressure pump . I have Indy SR heads with the external oil lines. New Meling high pressure pump, new pick up with windage tray. This is all on a new iron World Block. No missing galley plugs. Any ideas? Now to top off the day, the 3rd time we fired it, sounded like we had a dead hole. About when we were going to shut it of, we hear a bang from the valve cover. We pull the valve cover and one of the adjuster nuts is missing. Brand new set of Harland Sharp rockers. Luckily, the nut was laying in the head. We pull off the rockers to inspect everything and the underside of an exhaust rocker is beat to crap. So we file off the sharp edges and go to reinstall the adjuster screw into the rocker with a t-hand and the dang adjuster screw breaks about 3/8" from the top. I thought Harland Sharp had fixed their bad adjuster screw issue but apparently not. They will be getting a phone call Monday morning . I'm obviously extremely frustrated because I've spent a fair amount of money building this 528" motor, close to $10K and we assembled the motor as we always do. I was looking to hopefully make the last Summit race of the season next weekend but it doesn't look like that is in the cards for me. Thanks for letting me rant and if anyone has any ideas about the oil pressure, sure would appreciate it. Again, apologize for the long post.   
1.298 60 ft
6.001 1/8 mile
114 mph
9.52 1/4 mile
140.87 mph
@ 3110 lbs
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: brktracr]
#425820
08/01/09 09:37 PM
08/01/09 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,633
Jacksonville, NC
RonP
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,633
Jacksonville, NC
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Durand, we hadn't talked in a while. I wish you luck buddy and I am sure in the end, it will all be worth it.
I switched to Harlands this past winter and I was paranoid about the adjuster issue, but I had good luck and none of them broke.
Is it external oiling? make sure the line(s) are tight if so. I had that happen to me. Also, I have noticed on my new Harlands, that the seem to pass more oil between pairs and between the rocker and the stands than my indy rockers did. I don't have the pressure issue you do, but maybe that is worth looking at also.
Did that pushrod come out or anything on the rocker that the nut broke on? did the lifter kick up out of the bore maybe?
Ron
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: brktracr]
#425821
08/01/09 10:17 PM
08/01/09 10:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Since you tore up a rocker I would check the by-pass on the pump... could have debris in the by-pass holding it open 
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#425823
08/01/09 10:57 PM
08/01/09 10:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,376
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,376
Las Vegas
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Have you restricted the oil to the top end at the lines? I have had issues with Harland Sharpe(or any needle bearing)rockers and Indy heads in the past with no restrictors.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: AndyF]
#425825
08/02/09 01:24 AM
08/02/09 01:24 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Good point..........had the same problem w/my isky red-zones which were NOT solid body and went w/the solid body iskys and problem solved.
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: brktracr]
#425827
08/02/09 09:02 AM
08/02/09 09:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules
I'm neurotic
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I'm neurotic
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
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Quote:
A little long, sorry for that. Installed the 528" in the Duster today. Everything fit except they sent the wrong gilmer belt for the vacuum pump. Primed the motor, hit 60 lbs of oil press. Stuck the distributor in and fired it up. When it first started it was 60 lbs cold, then as the temp started going up, the pressure kept dropping until it was at 25 lbs idling when it hit about 180*. We put straight 30w "off road" with zinc for the break in. Let the motor cool off, fired it again and it was at 20 lbs idling at 1200 rpm. This pressure with a high pressure pump . I have Indy SR heads with the external oil lines. New Meling high pressure pump, new pick up with windage tray. This is all on a new iron World Block. No missing galley plugs. Any ideas?
Now to top off the day, the 3rd time we fired it, sounded like we had a dead hole. About when we were going to shut it of, we hear a bang from the valve cover. We pull the valve cover and one of the adjuster nuts is missing. Brand new set of Harland Sharp rockers. Luckily, the nut was laying in the head. We pull off the rockers to inspect everything and the underside of an exhaust rocker is beat to crap. So we file off the sharp edges and go to reinstall the adjuster screw into the rocker with a t-hand and the dang adjuster screw breaks about 3/8" from the top. I thought Harland Sharp had fixed their bad adjuster screw issue but apparently not. They will be getting a phone call Monday morning .
I'm obviously extremely frustrated because I've spent a fair amount of money building this 528" motor, close to $10K and we assembled the motor as we always do. I was looking to hopefully make the last Summit race of the season next weekend but it doesn't look like that is in the cards for me.
Thanks for letting me rant and if anyone has any ideas about the oil pressure, sure would appreciate it.
Again, apologize for the long post.
20 lbs hot with light oil is not too bad. Ideally 30 would be better. What happens when you rev it up? Does the pressure climb? Rule of thumb would be 10lbs for every 1000 rpm. Light oil, full groove bearings, loose clearance would all add up to low oil pressure at idle.
If it stays low when you rev it, then there might be an internal leak, or a defective/stuck by pass.
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: torkrules]
#425828
08/02/09 09:21 AM
08/02/09 09:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
Ron Silva
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,880
USA
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Every engine I have built the first oil filter had a bunch of crap in it. Not COMPLETELY loaded, but there is always something and sometimes it can be scary.
So I am not sure I would tear it down because of that.
I also am going to ask if anybody else builds rockers for that head/engine?? I would use anything but Harland Sharp.
Also did you get the vacuume pump working? Because if you get vacuume in the crankcase the oil pressure will be even lower.
SRT DEMON ONE SEAT
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: Ron Silva]
#425829
08/02/09 09:36 AM
08/02/09 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Every engine I have built the first oil filter had a bunch of crap in it. Not COMPLETELY loaded, but there is always something and sometimes it can be scary.
So I am not sure I would tear it down because of that.
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#425832
08/02/09 11:51 AM
08/02/09 11:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,230
Bend,OR USA
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New motors have to break in, breaking in a new motor makes metal of every type in the motor  I have seen paint chips, eye lashes, pieces of silicone and about everything else you can imagine in a oil filter, you think you keep the engine assembly room clean and then you find out how clean you keep the motor during assembly  As Ron has already said, the first filter will be dirty with debris on a new motor, the second one is better and so is the 3rd one, as long as you keep the motor seal up  My big motor idles with 18 to 20 lbs of pressure hot(170F+) at or under 900 rpms with 5W20 or 5w30WT CValvoline dino oil, four years of racing and street use
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#425833
08/02/09 12:08 PM
08/02/09 12:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You guys are missing something..... it had 20# after cooling We put straight 30w "off road" with zinc for the break in. Let the motor cool off, fired it again and it was at 20 lbs idling at 1200 rpm. JMO but he has a issue... could be just a stuck by-pass
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: brktracr]
#425834
08/02/09 12:39 PM
08/02/09 12:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
nhramark
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,104
Wheels up, MO
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Those external oil lines run through a restrictor, make sure that is in place. Also, I would double check that you have the correct lifters, just to be sure.
[image]http://s1126.photobucket.com/user/nhramark1/library/Racing[/image]
9.100 @ 150 mph
5.780 @ 120 mph
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Re: Bad day installing motor - need some advise
[Re: RonP]
#425837
08/02/09 02:03 PM
08/02/09 02:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 753
San Diego, CA
brktracr
OP
super street
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OP
super street
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 753
San Diego, CA
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I'll try to answer the questions posted. The cam is a Scott Brown roller, brand new Comp lifters, needed the extra .300" height do the extra thick lifter bores on the World Block. Lifters bores have been bushed, 1/2" internal oil pick up with a windage tray. When I raised the rpm's to 2300 the oil pressure moved all the way up to 25 lbs.  Didn't ever rev it over 2500 rpms because of the pressure situation. I have never experienced this low oil pressure situation with the 440 blocks but I know the World block is a different story. Bearings, both rod and mains, are clearanced to .003. Normally run 50w racing oil but like I stated never experienced this low pressure with a factory block. I'm not totally against Harland Sharps, my last set only lasted 13 years, new set didn't even make it to 4 minutes.  But I am more concerned about the oil pressure.
1.298 60 ft
6.001 1/8 mile
114 mph
9.52 1/4 mile
140.87 mph
@ 3110 lbs
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I have learned the hard way too many times...
