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Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Ron Silva] #421473
07/28/09 03:37 PM
07/28/09 03:37 PM
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Ron Silva Offline
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Smaller piston = higher brake fluid pressure. It's basic physics. You have the brake pedal, a lever (and leverage ratio), and a piston. Just think if the MC piston were 4" in diameter VS if it was 1/4" in diameter.


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Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Ron Silva] #421474
07/28/09 03:53 PM
07/28/09 03:53 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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Im almost in bed.

What if you have two different piston sizes with the same stroke like a MC wouldnt the smaller one produce a lower pressure becouse its pushing a smaller volume trough the same orfices?

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421475
07/28/09 04:13 PM
07/28/09 04:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
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Dexter, Michigan
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copper67440 Offline
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[ with the mopar m/c that was brought from a member on here.
Sorry for the hijack but, who was that member?

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: sshemi] #421476
07/28/09 04:14 PM
07/28/09 04:14 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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The master cylinder volume is to displace the area of the of the pistons or wheel cylinders.A proportioning valve controls the pressure.A stock valve and a race valve do the same thing they open and close the passing orfice which controls the pressure,ie: putting your finger on a garden hose to increase the pressure.Small race calipers with small pucks can use a small MC(less area,less volume)large street calipers with large or multiple pucks need larger MC bores and resovires. By adjusting the size of the passing orfice(making it smaller) increases the pressure,usually in to increase and out to decrease on the race valves

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: B G Racing] #421477
07/28/09 04:23 PM
07/28/09 04:23 PM
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sweden
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sshemi Offline
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Quote:

The master cylinder volume is to displace the area of the of the pistons or wheel cylinders.A proportioning valve controls the pressure.A stock valve and a race valve do the same thing they open and close the passing orfice which controls the pressure,ie: putting your finger on a garden hose to increase the pressure.Small race calipers with small pucks can use a small MC(less area,less volume)large street calipers with large or multiple pucks need larger MC bores and resovires. By adjusting the size of the passing orfice(making it smaller) increases the pressure,usually in to increase and out to decrease on the race valves




So you sre saying that a propvalve is nothing more than a finger on the hose.
Dont get me wrong here i want to learn this but wouldnt the finger keep the caliper pistons from returning and drag the rotors?
Or is it a spring actuated valve of somekind?

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: B G Racing] #421478
07/28/09 04:27 PM
07/28/09 04:27 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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I bet the majority of the race cars at the track on any given day don't use a prop valve.

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Quicktree] #421479
07/28/09 04:35 PM
07/28/09 04:35 PM
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east coast
Otherlane Offline OP
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I got the m/c from a member name rick ehrenberg

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: sshemi] #421480
07/28/09 04:37 PM
07/28/09 04:37 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

The master cylinder volume is to displace the area of the of the pistons or wheel cylinders.A proportioning valve controls the pressure.A stock valve and a race valve do the same thing they open and close the passing orfice which controls the pressure,ie: putting your finger on a garden hose to increase the pressure.Small race calipers with small pucks can use a small MC(less area,less volume)large street calipers with large or multiple pucks need larger MC bores and resovires. By adjusting the size of the passing orfice(making it smaller) increases the pressure,usually in to increase and out to decrease on the race valves




So you sre saying that a propvalve is nothing more than a finger on the hose.
Dont get me wrong here i want to learn this but wouldnt the finger keep the caliper pistons from returning and drag the rotors?
Or is it a spring actuated valve of somekind?




It is like putting your finger over the hose BUT
with the brakes its going into a closed area(line
and caliper) SO the pressure will equalize on both
sides of the valve after a giving period of time.
All that valve is is a delay on the pressure... in
hyd, the pressure will equalize

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #421481
07/28/09 04:49 PM
07/28/09 04:49 PM
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east coast
Otherlane Offline OP
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So without a prop valve you will have the same pressure at all 4 corners? the same stopping power at all 4 corners?

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421482
07/28/09 05:05 PM
07/28/09 05:05 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

So without a prop valve you will have the same pressure at all 4 corners? the same stopping power at all 4 corners?




Yes if the pistons in the master are the same, the
only difference would be the size of the caliper
pistons or wheel cylinder sizes... but if the master
pistons are the same you have the same PRESSURE

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421483
07/28/09 05:08 PM
07/28/09 05:08 PM
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Ron Silva Offline
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Not necessarily the same stoping power. I have the same calipers at all 4 wheels but my front rotors are 10-1/2" and the rear rotors are 12+" so the rear will have more stopping power. Gee maybe that is why I don't have the need for a porportioning valve since I run big&little tires...........

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Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Ron Silva] #421484
07/28/09 05:13 PM
07/28/09 05:13 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Not necessarily the same stoping power. I have the same calipers at all 4 wheels but my front rotors are 10-1/2" and the rear rotors are 12+" so the rear will have more stopping power. Gee maybe that is why I don't have the need for a porportioning valve since I run big&little tires...........




Very true, the farther you get from the centerline
the easier it is to stop the same mass

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #421485
07/28/09 05:23 PM
07/28/09 05:23 PM
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east coast
Otherlane Offline OP
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With that being said would it be harder to do a burnout without a prop valve?

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421486
07/28/09 05:25 PM
07/28/09 05:25 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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Quote:

With that being said would it be harder to do a burnout without a prop valve?



has nothing to do with it. only thing is there is not much front tire contact and if you don't get enough water on the slicks it will sometimes push the front tires.

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421487
07/28/09 05:38 PM
07/28/09 05:38 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

With that being said would it be harder to do a burnout without a prop valve?




You just have to hold the brake pedal a little longer
for the pressure to get to the fronts(remember it
will equalize)... most people including myself pump
the pedal a few times and hold it then press the line lock

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: MR_P_BODY] #421488
07/28/09 05:52 PM
07/28/09 05:52 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

With that being said would it be harder to do a burnout without a prop valve?




You just have to hold the brake pedal a little longer
for the pressure to get to the fronts(remember it
will equalize




huh

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Quicktree] #421489
07/28/09 06:20 PM
07/28/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

With that being said would it be harder to do a burnout without a prop valve?




You just have to hold the brake pedal a little longer
for the pressure to get to the fronts(remember it
will equalize




huh




Tony.... if you have a prop valve in the fronts the
pressure will be SLOW getting past the prop, then
it will equalize after X period of time

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: sshemi] #421490
07/28/09 06:37 PM
07/28/09 06:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

The master cylinder volume is to displace the area of the of the pistons or wheel cylinders.A proportioning valve controls the pressure.A stock valve and a race valve do the same thing they open and close the passing orfice which controls the pressure,ie: putting your finger on a garden hose to increase the pressure.Small race calipers with small pucks can use a small MC(less area,less volume)large street calipers with large or multiple pucks need larger MC bores and resovires. By adjusting the size of the passing orfice(making it smaller) increases the pressure,usually in to increase and out to decrease on the race valves




So you sre saying that a propvalve is nothing more than a finger on the hose.
Dont get me wrong here i want to learn this but wouldnt the finger keep the caliper pistons from returning and drag the rotors?
Or is it a spring actuated valve of somekind?


Your not comprehending this at all,the pressure is only when the piston is depressed in the master cylinder which inturn pushes the fluid through the system pushing the pucks and applying the brakes,when the pedal is released so is the pressure,simply theory of hydraulics pressure applied through the pedal ratio,applied through mc bore/stroke,controlling a given volume at a given pressure.Change in pressure can be regulated by the size of orfice it passes through.The small orfice holds back the volume(under pressure) and the orfice creates the additional pressure.ie: a nozzle on a fire hose or pressure washer.Sorry I can't explain it any simpler,hope it helps you understand.Another example would be a diesal fuel injection system where as a pump generally pumps fuel at 45psi to the injector nozzle the nozzle orfice releases fuel at 1800psi.

Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: B G Racing] #421491
07/28/09 07:19 PM
07/28/09 07:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Another example would be a diesal fuel injection system where as a pump generally pumps fuel at 45psi to the injector nozzle the nozzle orfice releases fuel at 1800psi.




Actually Bob thats incorrect... the pump is making
the pressure but the small orifice increases velocity
to atomize it... thats why a loose injector line
is bad news(it will cut better than a knife)


Re: Proportioning valve question [Re: Otherlane] #421492
07/29/09 08:45 AM
07/29/09 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 205
Chicago,Illinois
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nosboy Offline
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Chicago,Illinois
I made the switch to 4 wheel disc and bought a kit from strange engineering... They explained the theory about the master sending pressure to the FRONT wheels first and then the rear,, and they also talked about the surface area (footprint) that the front vs rear tires have.. The correct answer was to buy TWO pressure gauges and I FORGOT THE SPEC,,but,, I screwed a pressure gauge in the front and rear bleeder screws and adjusted the proportioning valve accordingly..

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