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timing issue #386948
07/26/09 05:21 PM
07/26/09 05:21 PM
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robin hood country
deaks Offline OP
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The timing has been moving around on my car, i've checked the balancer which seems ok, the distributor is brand new MSD, i've inspected the bronze drive and it appears ok.
I am wondering if it could be the small bush in the block because i can twist the rotor arm quite a lot, how much movement should there be?.
When i put the timing light on it, it's jumping all over the place.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386949
07/26/09 05:38 PM
07/26/09 05:38 PM
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what about the timing chain?

Re: timing issue [Re: Quicktree] #386950
07/26/09 05:49 PM
07/26/09 05:49 PM
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robin hood country
deaks Offline OP
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I tried turning the motor over with a long bar and as soon as i turn it the rotor moves instantly.


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386951
07/26/09 06:00 PM
07/26/09 06:00 PM
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emarine01 Offline
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Rock the bar back and fourth to see if its the chain

Re: timing issue [Re: emarine01] #386952
07/26/09 06:02 PM
07/26/09 06:02 PM
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robin hood country
deaks Offline OP
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Ok will try that, could it be the small bushing though and how much twist should there be in the rotor arm.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386953
07/26/09 06:06 PM
07/26/09 06:06 PM
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State of confusion
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That`s one of the reasons I locked my dizzy out.....one less thing to mess with and if you have a fast curve in it, it will jump around.


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: timing issue [Re: Thumperdart] #386954
07/26/09 06:12 PM
07/26/09 06:12 PM
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emarine01 Offline
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There have been posts on here about timing moving around caused by the play between the dist shaft and oil pump drive slot, seems its fixed with a clamp or short hose

Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386955
07/26/09 06:22 PM
07/26/09 06:22 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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[how much movement should there be?.]
i had .090 movement and took it down to .010 with the lock coller and welding the tip of the dist shaft.

Re: timing issue [Re: blownzoom440] #386956
07/26/09 06:42 PM
07/26/09 06:42 PM
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deaks Offline OP
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I had a short tube on the last distributor and i flattened the tang on both sides a little to make it a comfortable fit in the slot.
Going back to my original question, could the bush possibly cause a problem.


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386957
07/26/09 06:51 PM
07/26/09 06:51 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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Quote:

could the bush possibly cause a problem.



no. my

Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386958
07/26/09 06:55 PM
07/26/09 06:55 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

I had a short tube on the last distributor and i flattened the tang on both sides a little to make it a comfortable fit in the slot.
Going back to my original question, could the bush possibly cause a problem.




Not by much at all... if the bushing is worn you
still wont get rotational play, you would get the
shaft moving side to side... if the chain is tight
then its down to the cam walking back and forth,
the intermediate shaft moving up and down or a dist
problem (binding then going free)

Re: timing issue [Re: blownzoom440] #386959
07/26/09 06:58 PM
07/26/09 06:58 PM
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long island NY
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Ari440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

could the bush possibly cause a problem.






yes

if its out of round and there is play in it, oversized to the shaft

it gave me problems


repaced it and with locked timming *35 needed to get a msd start retard box


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: timing issue [Re: Ari440] #386960
07/27/09 03:17 AM
07/27/09 03:17 AM
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robin hood country
deaks Offline OP
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Ari
Did you replace it with the motor together, i presume it's pump off and tap it out with a rod from underside and long nose pliers to pull it out the top.
When i fitted the MSD dist, i didn't fit the rubber hose back on and the car lost 3-5 mph at the weekend.
The only other changes since the previous meeting are a larger rad and i've changed the electric fan for a viscous fan.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386961
07/27/09 09:08 AM
07/27/09 09:08 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Ari
Did you replace it with the motor together, i presume it's pump off and tap it out with a rod from underside and long nose pliers to pull it out the top.
When i fitted the MSD dist, i didn't fit the rubber hose back on and the car lost 3-5 mph at the weekend.
The only other changes since the previous meeting are a larger rad and i've changed the electric fan for a viscous fan.
Mick




If you want to change the bushing while the engine
is still together, make up a J on a slide hammer to
pull it out (go down through the center of it)

Re: timing issue [Re: MR_P_BODY] #386962
07/27/09 09:15 AM
07/27/09 09:15 AM
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deaks Offline OP
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What a great idea, thanks Mr P I knew i could rely on you.
I want to change the bush but i'm also going to buy a dist collar and maybe look into another bronze drive.
How would i know if i had cam walk, cam is a crane roller.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386963
07/27/09 09:35 AM
07/27/09 09:35 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

What a great idea, thanks Mr P I knew i could rely on you.
I want to change the bush but i'm also going to buy a dist collar and maybe look into another bronze drive.
How would i know if i had cam walk, cam is a crane roller.
Mick




Take a big screwdriver and in the dist hole move the
cam back and forth... I think the spec is like .010-.015
but I'm not sure on that.... you know what that looks
like so if it moves a fair bit you need to correct, but
that turns the intermediate shaft more or less as
the cam moves fore and aft

Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386964
07/27/09 11:43 AM
07/27/09 11:43 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Pull the distributor out and pull the oil pump drive up enough so you can try and rock the shft in the bushing, if it has a bunch of lateral movement then check the shaft diameter and the bushing.Is yours a aluminum or bronze looking bushing? As far as cam movement it is a lot easier to move the cam back and forth with a screwdriver or anty other type of lever if you remove the pressure from the valve springs first


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386965
07/27/09 05:42 PM
07/27/09 05:42 PM
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long island NY
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Ari440 Offline
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Quote:

Ari
Did you replace it with the motor together, i presume it's pump off and tap it out with a rod from underside and long nose pliers to pull it out the top.
When i fitted the MSD dist, i didn't fit the rubber hose back on and the car lost 3-5 mph at the weekend.
The only other changes since the previous meeting are a larger rad and i've changed the electric fan for a viscous fan.
Mick






YES

I did it with the moter in the car

GOT A LONG 5/8 BOLT .... 7/16 THREAD AND THREADED IT IN THE BUSHING AND PRYED IT OUT SLOWLY
HAD THE MANIFOLD OFF AND VALLY PLATE TOO

this was when I went to 12.5 comp and 613/276 cam upgraded the from 9.1 528 solid


timming was skattering all over ,when I changed the bushing it was steady but hard to start and put a retard box in for stating the moter over easy


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: timing issue [Re: Ari440] #386966
07/27/09 06:14 PM
07/27/09 06:14 PM
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ELYRIA,OH
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blownzoom440 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Ari
Did you replace it with the motor together, i presume it's pump off and tap it out with a rod from underside and long nose pliers to pull it out the top.
When i fitted the MSD dist, i didn't fit the rubber hose back on and the car lost 3-5 mph at the weekend.
The only other changes since the previous meeting are a larger rad and i've changed the electric fan for a viscous fan.
Mick






YES

I did it with the moter in the car

GOT A LONG 5/8 BOLT .... 7/16 THREAD AND THREADED IT IN THE BUSHING AND PRYED IT OUT SLOWLY
HAD THE MANIFOLD OFF AND VALLY PLATE TOO

this was when I went to 12.5 comp and 613/276 cam upgraded the from 9.1 528 solid


timming was skattering all over ,when I changed the bushing it was steady but hard to start and put a retard box in for stating the moter over easy


i would think the distrebutor could help hold the intermediat shaft in line.the intermediat shaft must have been like throwing a hotdog down the hallway. anything can happin i guess.

Re: timing issue [Re: blownzoom440] #386967
07/28/09 12:23 PM
07/28/09 12:23 PM
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robin hood country
deaks Offline OP
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I used to have the dual line external oiling system and because of drain back i would always be priming it, this may have caused the bush to wear.
Ari
Did your erratic timing lose you much power.
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386968
07/28/09 01:12 PM
07/28/09 01:12 PM
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Ari440 Offline
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Quote:

I used to have the dual line external oiling system and because of drain back i would always be priming it, this may have caused the bush to wear.
Ari
Did your erratic timing lose you much power.
Mick





I couldnt get the timming marks rigth and didnt go to the track this way

when the 440 was 9.1 528 cam it didnt matter as much as it was 12.5 and 613/276 cam

didnt want to hurt the moter


but street driving it was a little better then


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: timing issue [Re: Ari440] #386969
07/28/09 01:15 PM
07/28/09 01:15 PM
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Ari440 Offline
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I had the duel line setup too , if you where priming it and the primming tool gouged (sp) the bushing then it would be oblonged and giving you the skattered timming


1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
Re: timing issue [Re: deaks] #386970
07/28/09 01:35 PM
07/28/09 01:35 PM
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Birmingham, England
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You sure it's not your timing light getting screwed by the MSD multi-sparks Mick.


1970 Road Runner 505 cid MCH CNC ported Stealth heads MP 528 camshaft 4 speed GV overdrive 11.98 @ 117 on street treads
Re: timing issue [Re: Mick70RR] #386971
07/28/09 07:24 PM
07/28/09 07:24 PM
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deaks Offline OP
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I've got 2 timing lights Mick and it's lost power since i changed the distributor, however, the old one had the hose trick done to it.
I will call you this week and you can tell me about your woes as well.
Ari
You could be right about the gouging, one way or another i'll sort it because i'm on a mission to run 10 seconds.
Who sells the dist collar
Mick


69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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